Namaskaram.
It is mentioned that Perumal does creation at the movement of the eye (கண் அசைவில்) of Thayar. In such case, the swathanthriyam of Perumal appears to have been lost. Is it correct?.
adiyen
SriVaishnava dasan
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Srimate Raamanujaya Namaha,
Swami, we cannot consider it as loss of Swaathantriyam. Bhaagawan becomes devotee’s devotee out of his own choice.( Like how Sri Krishna took the role of Charioteer for Arjuna).
Adiyen
Thirukachidaasanudasan
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On this point, referring to Swami’s upanyasam of Day 12 of Perialwar Thirumozhi Kalakshepam, if we say we are swathantran, Perumal says “I’m your boss” and if we say we are parathantran, Perumal says “I’m your servant”. How beautiful
adiyen
Ramanuja Dasan.
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Resp. Sri. Velukkudi Krishnan swamy,
Namaskaram.
Thank you very much for your reply vide enpani audio #2204. Feel happy to get an audio on this thread.
Perumal does creation at the movement of the eye (கண் அசைவில்) of Thayar. I also heard in one of the upanyasam that காலம் (Time) reminds Perumal for annihilation (maha pralayam) and creation, after every 100 years of Brahma. That is the reason, I have raised this query.
The point adiyen would like highlight from the audio is “Perumal does creation by approving piratti’s கண் அசைவு for His இச்சையாலே, விருப்பத்தாலே & அன்பாலே”. From this, if it is taken that His wish is reflected in Piratti’s கண் அசைவு, then His swathanthriyam is not affected.
I consider the following will explain the apparent contradiction due to காலம் and கண் அசைவு for creation. காலம் (Time) reminds Perumal for creation, then by Perumal’s இச்சையாலே, விருப்பத்தாலே & அன்பாலே piratti கண் அசைக்கிறார், Perumal approves and does creation.
Request to correct me, if my understanding is wrong.
adiyen
SriVaishnava dasan
Namaskaram.
When I initiated this thread, adiyen did not get the thought of creation w.r.to time. It flashed to me after my first post.
adiyen
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Srimate Raamanujaye Namaha,
Swamy, there are quite a few areas/aspects/questions where such logical questions are raised. But over time i have heard and learnt (cannot say realized it but atleast know theoretically).. that “devotion begins where logic stops- so in the actual realm of devotion , there is no logic applied”. It is a bit tough for me to accept.. but that is how many aspects can be answered.. for example as conditioned souls we have been non-cooperative to the Lord for millions of births, yet he remains kind, supportive and cooperative…unconditionally.
In the realm of logic things are conditional..”if..but” etc.. But in realm of devotion things are unconditional so perhaps logic does not exist.
Adiyen
Thirukachidaasnudasan
Swamy,
Nyaya shastra, logical reasoning, is one of the eight upaṇgas of Vedas.
adiyen’s above posting is based on the following inference:
காலம் (Time) to remind Perumal for annihilation (maha pralayam) and creation, after every 100 years of Brahma and also Perumal to do creation on Piratti’s கண் அசைவு. Then கண் அசைவு and reminding by காலம் has to match for creation. If creation is done on Piratti’s கண் அசைவு only, then it may not be after the prescribed time duration. Hence there will be mismatch. Taking the clue from swamy’s enpani audio, adiyen has indicated my inference to avoid this mismatch. This meets both Piratti’s கண் அசைவு and reminding by காலம் without affecting Perumal’s swathanthriyam.
adiyen
Srimate Raamanujaye Namaha,
Swamy, as per my understanding, Nyaya shastra gives logic for analyzing the elements we see in this world and also finally comes to a conclusions and establishes that Paramatma exists. But beyond that detailed qualities and actions of Bhagawaan in spiritual world are beyond the scope of Nyaya (Logic).
So logic is useful in defeating aethistic philosophies and to come to understanding that God exists.
adiyen
Thirukachidaasanudasan
Namaskaram swamy,
http://www.srimatham.com/uploads/5/5/4/9/5549439/nyaya_philosophy.pdf
The following point is picked up from the above link for the use of Nyaya.
“The Nyāya examines the logic and coherence of philosophical or religious statements, and by comparing such statements with other widely-held beliefs about life, assess the appropriateness of accepting them as true.”
Hence, Nyaya shastra is not used only to prove the existence of Brahmam.
adiyen
Swamy,
The point of discussion is functioning of Perumal and Thayar. Nyaya shastra is used to prove the existence of Brahmam itself. In such case, why not it be used on the functioning of Perumal and Thayar. More over, the following three points
- Creation is to be done at the prescribed time duration
- Creation done at Piratti’s கண் அசைவு
- Perumal is swathanthriyan
are as per scripture and acharyas. Can the violation of any one is allowed?. All three has to match for creation. Is there any other means to overcome this apparent paradox?.
adiyen
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