Sri:
Why we stress on
Tad vithi pranipAthena
Pari PrashnEna sevaya
Upadekshyanthi they gyaanam
Nyaaninaa tattva dharshinA
What does humbleness or humility got to do with knowledge? Adiyen don’t see western education doing the same yet they invent technologies, gaining knowledge.
Adiyen see spiritual talks in youtube where the interviewer keeps leg on keg which is a strict no no in our tratodtion yet nobody complains about it.
How is our knowledge superior?
Dasanudasan
Hare Krishna!
Aneha koti namaskaram swami! Excellent question swami. Please forgive Adiyen for being ‘direct’ to the points.
First up, knowledge is not ‘gained’ but is ‘provided’ by the lord since Jiva desires for it (only desire). The very act of thinking that it is gained makes one feel that the knowledge ‘belongs’ to the Jiva (/ Jiva’s possession) and that will lead to misusing it for ‘personal’ benefits say ‘fame’ or to control others etc.,
Spiritual knowledge teaches us that the ‘aatma’ itself is lord’s possession, what to speak of knowledge or fame or any other opulence ? When Rahman says ‘ella pugazhum iraivanukke’, initially Adiyen thought, its just buzz words and later realized he really ‘means’ it.
Reference from swami’s upanyasam: There are 5 karmenthiriyangal. But ‘head’ is not one of them yet there is 1 important karma that it has to do which is ‘bow down’.
Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu!
Danyosmi Swamy
Aneka Koti Namaskarams.
Vidhya Garvam is most dangerous than being innocent.
Two people were brought in front of Dharma Putrar for same sin to test his ability to judge. A learned Brahmin and an innocent man. The punishment given to learned Brahmin was very heavy. Dharma Raja said the he is a learned man and did it knowing it’s a sin, whereas the other one did due to lack of awareness.
The more we grow in knowledge, more shall we shed ego.
Calling self as Daasanu Daasan or Adiyen is a practise to consider self as last among least. By doing this, one ensures to avoid Vidhya Garvam. But, this should be from heart rather than being pronounced as a formality from mouth.
The more we know to bow, more we grow and God is happy to provide us with more knowledge.
I am a Madhva Vaishnavite by birth. But, I respect all three Acharyas viz Adishankara Bagavad Padar, Bagavad Ramanujar and Shri Madhvacharyar equally and accept/read all three philosophies with open mind. I take Vedanta as Vedanta and learn with the aid of these three Siddhantas.
Though I am not a Sri Vaishnavite, one quality that I like the most and admire from Sri Vaishnavites is calling themselves Adiyen. I am also trying to implement this mentality in life.
Sarvam Shri Krishnaarpanamastu!
Hare Krishna!
Aneha koti namaskaram swami. Perfect answers swami. Sri Chaitanya mahaprabhu says, a vaishna should think himself lower than ‘blade of grass’ on the street and he should be more patient than a ‘tree’.
“Servitorship” is the essence of ‘vaishnavism’ which is the ‘safest’ approach to handle ‘Ahankaram’. Vainavam endrale, ‘Thondu’!
Sri Ramana maharishi says ‘It is those who are not learned that are saved rather than those whose ego has not yet subsided in spite of their learning’
Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu!
Very true Swami
Serving is the safest approach to kill Ahankaram
Dasanudasan
????????????????
Beautiful discussions
Adiyen agree to both Swamis. The reason we say Swami to others and adiyen to self is because waterfall comes top down. So is knowledge.
In fact it’s better to bow someone who bows Vishnu (BhagavAn’s devotee BhAgavatha) so we say dasanudasan or adiyenukkuadiyen.
Adiyen still unsure how vidhya garvam related to humbleness. Vidhya garvam comes after gaining knowledge. Humbleness is before gaining knowledge.
The posture we sit, the way we address everything represents humbleness.
For example students call teachers by names in America. Can we say they have vidhya garvam? We Indians call miss and sir.
In McCauley education students sit and teachers stand and deliver.
In gurukulam teacher sits above and students sit below or students stand in front of an Acharya.
In companies we call by names even the CEO. Yet we have knowledge exchange sessions. We indeed gain something.
So how is our SriVaishnava knowledge is class apart from other knowledge? What does it take to be a SriVaishnavite?
How good is this culture to learn things humbly is the answer adiyen want/expecting.
Also adiyen have sub questions:
Why madhwa not a SriVaishnavite?
To me, those who follow Vishnu is a vaishnavite.
Even adiyen love Raghavendra Swami. Swamy was devoted to moola Ramar. All three Acharyas agreed to Sriman Narayana as the primordial source.
Dasanudasan
Narayana
Aneka Koti Namaskarams Swami
“Adiyen still unsure how vidhya garvam related to humbleness. Vidhya garvam comes after gaining knowledge. Humbleness is before gaining knowledge.”
Humbleness shall be followed through out life even after attaining knowledge. But, it cannot be suddenly practised after gaining knowledge and has to come from beginning. It doesn’t mean that it is enough if one is humble till he attains knowledge.
“Why madhwa not a SriVaishnavite?”
Swami. I am happy if you call me a Srivaishnavite.
I just told Madhva Vaishnavite as per the common usage of words among people in today’s world. I already told I respect all three Acharyas and hence let us not please make this a separate topic of discussion.
Daasanu Daasan Srinivasan Pranesh
Seeri Seri Pranesh Swamy that’s okay
Devar’s usage of nadhwa sounded different so asked.
Let’s come to main course
“It doesn’t mean that it is enough if one is humble till he attains knowledge.”
Fully agree. After gaining knowledge vidhya garvam makes sense you can correlate both.
Whereas before “acquiring” knowledge (as Krishna Dasan Swamy does not insist terming it “gaining” knowledge ) how can one get vidhya garvam ? This we cannot correlate.
Yes humility should be there always. Question is why?
If an English person asks me what should adiyen answer from SriVaishnavism perspective?
Dasanudasan
Please forgive spellings ?? as my eyesight is getting poor and am typing from mobile.
Today let’s all say Alavandhar Acharya Swamy dhaniyan and get blessings
ALavandhAr’s thanian
yath padhAmbhOruhadhyAna vidhvasthAsEsha kalmasha:
vasthuthAmupayA dhOham yAmunEyam namAmitham
யத் பதாம்போருஹத்யாந வித்வஸ்தாஸேஷ கல்மஷ:
வஸ்துதாமுபயா தோஹம் யாமுநேயம் நமாமிதம்
Hare Krishna!
Aneha koti namaskaram swami. Adiyen thought the question was answered below:
The very act of thinking that it is gained makes one feel that the knowledge ‘belongs’ to the Jiva (/ Jiva’s possession) and that will lead to misusing it for ‘personal’ benefits say ‘fame’ or to control others etc.,
Lets say between ‘Guru’ and the ‘knowledge’ that Guru imparts to us, which one do we think ‘superior’ ?
If we think, knowledge is superior, then we follow western style in interacting with others (that swami has highlighted, standing/calling by names etc.,).
If we think, Guru is superior, then we bow down to him always – before learning and during learning. Please note, here, there is NO ‘after’ learning. Is there any ‘end’ to knowledge ?
It is ‘Ahankaram’ that makes one think, yes, now everything is learnt and there is no more learning. Since ‘Ahankaram’ has taken over ‘knowledge’ here, it will start misusing it on others for personal benefits (fame etc.,). And when we start misusing it, the lord will ‘take’ that away from us.
Adiyen recalls waguely that Einstein said, ‘there must be something behind all this energy’. He never concluded that, he has invented / discovered ‘everything’. And that is ‘Humility’.
Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu!
Aneka koti namaskarams,
Technically speaking it’s the discovery of knowledge from within Athman. The Guru helps us to uncover the knowledge within.
According to adiyen garvam does not come when one thinks he has learned enough but it comes when one thinks that others don’t know that much. This is Ahankaram.
Without we knowing, nobody can confer titles like “U.Ve” Ubhaya Vedanthi, GhanapAdi etc
So a section of knowledge is indeed uncovered at regular intervals. Hope there is no opinion difference here.
Such a learning is never ending.
In Brahma Suthra Sri Bhashya Mangala Shlokam
Udayavar says semushi bhakthi Roopa
The knowledge with bhakthi leads to brahmam as devareer said.
This bhakthi should be towards Guru.
Only Brahma Gyanam is eligible as knowledge rest is useless.
This should be the closest answer. Adiyen still keep the question open for variety of answers including both of you Swami’s.
Dhanyosmi
Dasanudasan
Hare Krishna!
Aneha koti namaskaram swami. Kshamikkanam Swami, Adiyen is ‘totally’ unqualified to continue the discussion and in fact, Adiyen has shared opinions so far beyond the limits of Adiyen’s qualification. This statement is not out of disinterest in continuation of the discussion but out of realization. What one realizes can not be ‘explained’, it has to be realized by every individual.
Recall the popular dialogue from Matrix movie where Morpheous says to Neo ‘Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself’
Just one last point. There are different levels of Kainkaryam the highest being, serving bhagavatas. Srila Prabhupada has come down from vyasasana to show how to clean the floor in the temple! Adiyen has started to practice washing vessels, cleaning house etc., (in whatsoever capacity possible) that are generally ‘outsourced’ to different individuals (either with in the family or to domestic help), with a hope and desire that one day, kainkaryam can be done to bhagavatas.
Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu!
Hare Krishna! Aneha Koti namaskaram swami!
Very interesting teaching from lord Sri Krishna that humility is ‘part’ of knowledge and it is not ‘outside’ of knowledge. And it is not just a ‘part’ but the ‘foremost’ part of it!
Bg 13.8-12 — அடக்கம்; கர்வமின்மை; அகிம்சை; பொறுமை; எளிமை; அங்கீகரிக்கப்பட்ட ஆன்மீக குருவை அணுகுதல்; தூய்மை; தளராமை; சுயக்கட்டுப்பாடு; புலனுகர்ச்சிப் பொருள்களைத் துறத்தல்; பொய் அஹங்காரம் இல்லாதிருத்தல்; பிறப்பு, இறப்பு, முதுமை, நோய் ஆகியவற்றின் துன்பத்தினை கவனித்தல்; குழந்தைகள், மனைவி, வீடு மற்றும் இதர பந்தத்திலிருந்து விடுபட்டு இருத்தல்; விருப்பு வெறுப்புகளில் சமநிலை; என் மீதான நித்தியமான களங்கமற்ற பக்தி; தனிமையான இடங்களில் வாழ விரும்புதல்; பொதுமக்களிடமிருந்து விலகியிருத்தல்; ஆத்ம ஞானத்தின் முக்கியத்துவத்தை ஏற்றல்; பரம சத்தியத்தை அறிவதற்கான தத்துவ ஆய்வு—இவையனைத்தையும் நான் ஞானமாக அறிவிக்கின்றேன், இவற்றைத் தவிர மற்றவை அனைத்தும் அறியாமையே ஆகும்.
Bg 13.8-12 — Humility; pridelessness; nonviolence; tolerance; simplicity; approaching a bona fide spiritual master; cleanliness; steadiness; self-control; renunciation of the objects of sense gratification; absence of false ego; the perception of the evil of birth, death, old age and disease; detachment; freedom from entanglement with children, wife, home and the rest; even-mindedness amid pleasant and unpleasant events; constant and unalloyed devotion to Me; aspiring to live in a solitary place; detachment from the general mass of people; accepting the importance of self-realization; and philosophical search for the Absolute Truth – all these I declare to be knowledge, and besides this whatever there may be is ignorance.
Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu!
Seri adiyen,
Adakkam amararul uikkum
Adangaamai aarirul uithu vidum
– Thirukkural
No more questions from adiyen.
Dhanyosmi
Podhum ?
