Aneka Koti Namaskarams of Daasanu Daasan Srinivasan to the lotus feet of Shri Velukkudi Swamy
Are Bakthi yoga and surrender associated with each other or they are two independent Marga?
Kindly throw some light on differences between Bakthi and Saranagati.
Sarvam Shri Krishnaarpanamastu!
Swamy already clarified Saranagati in one of Enpani audios. However, I am not clear on differences between Bakthi vs Saranagati.
Hare Krishna! Aneha Koti Namaskaram Swami!
Adiyen’s understanding from Swami’s upanyasams, please correct if there is any misunderstanding.
Adiyen also had another ‘notion’ that only the last stage of devotion (‘Aatma Nivedhanam’) is alone ‘Surrender’ but it sounds like the 1st 8 stages of devotion (Sravanam, Keerthanam, Smaranam etc.,) are also done in the state of ‘surrender’ provided the mood is # 2 above. All these 9 stages are part of ‘Bakti’ with different moods (# 1 and # 2 above) while the 9th stage (‘Aatma Nivedhanam’) sounds like ‘pure’ surrender.
Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu!
Aneka koti namaskarams
Well said, adiyen
“I’m the doer – Bakti
Lord Sriman Narayana/Sri Krishna is the doer – Saranaagati”
Also SharanAgathi is unique to all mArgams. Anyone from any mArgam can surrender.
Also as per my poorvAchAryan Srimath Thirukkudandhai Andavan Swamy, bhakthi yOga & nyAna yOgam can be coupled. Similarly Karma yOgi and bhakthi. Karma yOgi & nyAna yOgi.
One should have breathed, walked, smelled, touched, tasted before any adhering platform.
Dhruvan stopped breathing at a point and had prathyaksham of Sriman NArAyana.
He was Karma yOgi transformed into nyAna yOgi. Unique classification cannot be done.
Pure nyAna yOgi etc are against scriptures. There are no such things in reality.
A bhakthi yOgi does not mean he does not have nyAnam. Priority is high.
“NArAyanane namakmEy parai tharuvAn”
AdhuvEy nyAnam
Dasanudasan
Danyosmi
May be, Shri Velukkudi Swamy hinted those in his speeches. But, Adiyen’s Agyanam is preventing me from understanding everything in one go.
Thanks to both Swamies for taking time to explain in detail.
Sarvam Shri Krishnaarpanamastu!
If you don’t mistake Adiyen, let Adiyen say the background of the question. Adiyen read some glimpses of Paramapada Sopanam of Shri Vedanta Desikar. In the fifth step among nine, that is Prasadhan, he says a devotee may choose either Bakthi Yoga or Prapatti (surrender) and shows them as different paths. I was also in the understanding that in Bakthi, the feeling of ‘I am the doer’ would be there and hence it’s not complete surrender.
But, in the essence, Shri Vedanta Desikar says that in both the paths, the complete trust is placed on Lord Sriman Narayana and the Jiva does not hold any responsibility. I was wondering in that case, what is the real difference between these two and why are they projected as two paths?
From above explanations and Swamy’s Enpani speech, Adiyen understand that one is supported by other and associated. Please correct if Adiyen’s understanding is wrong.
Sarvam Shri Krishnaarpanamastu!
Aneka Koti Namaskaram to both Swamies
Just conveying what Adiyen read in a book today from authenticated source. Conveying without any edition in what is written.
“When the upasaka wants to begin Bakthi yoga, there are many sins of his that stands in his way. He will have to settle accounts with them either by experiencing the fruits of all those sins standing to his credit or by making suitable acts of expiation (Prayascitta) for every one of them. The sins are so many in number that all the time in the future will not be enough either for experiencing the fruits or for performing acts of expiation. Then how to get over the sins and begin the Bakthi yoga? The Sastras prescribe Prapatti (surrender or the means of seeking refuge under Parabrahmam) as the sure way of getting rid of the sins.
The yogi falls at the feet of Paramatma, expressing his incompetency and destitution and prays Him to destroy his sins and help him to begin the Bakthi yoga. Baghavan in His infinite mercy, takes the yogi under His protection and destroys the sins. When the sins that stand in the way of beginning the Bakthi-yoga has thus been wiped out, the yogi is able to begin the practise of Bakthi yoga or Upasana.”
Reference: Visishtadvaita, Author: A.S.Raghavan, TTD Publications.
So, as per author, Bakthi yoga and Prapatti are not two different paths and they go hand in hand. He says, in fact, Prapatti is the starting point of Bakthi yoga. There is nothing here as my opinion. Just conveyed what Adiyen read as such.
Bagavad Ramanujar also says, absolution of fruits of karma is achieved by surrender.
Sarvam Shri Krishnaarpanamastu!
Hare Krishna! Aneha koti Namaskaram Swami!
Yes Swami. This was made clear in our Sri Krishnan Swami’s ‘Bhagavad Gita’ discourse. If swami gets a chance, please refer Swami’s ‘Bhagavad Gita’ discourse Chapter 7 Track 32 (032-Chapter-7-Track-32). “Certain” level of surrender is needed to even ‘start’ Bhakti and the surrender ripes as one advances in the 9 stages of Bhakti.
Jiva’s initial state before surrender is ‘I’m having pleasure’, later it advances to ‘Both myself and Bhagavan are having pleasure’ and the final state is “My existence is only for Bhagavan’s pleasure”.
Bhagavad Gita 13.23 — இருப்பினும், இவ்வுடலில் மற்றொருவரும் இருக்கின்றார், அவர் தெய்வீக அனுபவிப்பாளர். அவரே இறைவன், பரம உரிமையாளர். மேற்பார்வையிட்டு அனுமதி வழங்குபவரும், பரமாத்மா என்று அறியப்படுபவரும் அவரே.
Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu!
Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
“the feeling of ‘I am the doer’ would be there and hence it’s not complete surrender” –
Sri Bhagavath AagnyayA Sriman NArAyana Preethyartham or Sriman NArAyana Kainkarya Roopam
Karma swasmai swapreedhaye swayamEva kArayathi
VisnO karmAni pashyatha
Aneka Koti Namaskarams Swamy
Thanks to both of you for replies.
I think the information in the book and the reference to Shri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy’s Gita discourse are pretty clear and gives me some clarity on this.
Sarvam Shri Krishnaarpanamastu!
In the last stage of Bakthi, Atma Nivedhanam, the feeling of “I” is also lost and we live just to please Lord.
