When all these terms are of general nature and can be applied to any brahmana who has the relevant paandityam, how it became associated only with Advaitins later?
e.g., the moment somebody says ‘Ghanapaathi’, we identify them with Advaitins only? Is there a special reason for it?
Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruve Namaha,
Dear Bhagavata,
Adiyen will share similar reference from Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami’s upanyasam for this context as well with Acharya Krupai and Swami’s Arul.
The BASE grammer for sanskrit is called “Paanini Soothram” which was written by “Paanini Maharishi” which is common for any Matham like Srivaishavism (Advaitam, Dvaitham, Vishitaadvaitam) or Saivism or Gaanapathyam or Koumaram or Boudham etc….
Using this base sanskrit grammar, gurus of these faiths write the philosophy in sanskrit referring to Shastras AS IT IS and some gurus interpret Shastras in their own way based on their level of understanding, so different faiths exists using same base sanskrit grammer written by Paanini.
So getting in to answering BhagavAtas question, some Background needs to be understood as below.
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Background:
Overall Paanini Soothram has two classifications:
a) Roodi Artham (रूढि) means “Etimology” (breakdown of each sanskrit words combined together should have a meaning),
b) Loukika Artham (लौकिक) means “Popular Usage” (Popularly usage meaning of the word in routine life).
Example used by Acharyas to establish Sriman NarayanA as the “ParamAthma” as per Shastras and NOT Shiva is by using the same Paanini sanskrit grammar common between Srivaishnavism and Saivism, where both Roodi and Loukika As then should match to one person only.
a) Etimology meaning (Roodi Artham):
NA RA YA NA “நா ரா ய ண” split in to two
“NARA” Kootal “AYANAM” –> நார + அயனம் == நாராயண.
‘NARA (நார)‘ means Narangal (நாரர்கள்), means all JeevAthmas, Sentient.
‘AYANAM (அயனம்)‘ means where the Narargal (நாரர்கள்) reside.
‘kootal’ in tamil means ‘+’ addtion.
So, when NARA (நார) and AYANAM (அயனம்) is combined then,
ர + அ = ரா, so ‘நாரா”
and the ‘moonu suzhi ‘NA (ண)’ instead of oru suzhi ‘NA (ன) is added as per grammer.
and hence, நார + அயனம் =நாராயண. ‘NARAYANA, which means means “the resort or place where the ‘Narargal ‘All Jeevas’ (நார)‘ Reside (அயனம்) ‘” is ‘NARAYANA (நாராயண).
b) Popular Usage meaning (Loukika Artham):
In popluar usage, when soemone says BhagavAN Narayana, it is immediately understood, that BhagavAn Sriman Narayananan is teh one we are talking about.
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So, by ‘Etimology’ it is understood all JeevaAthmas reside on Narayana and by ‘Popular Usage’ it is understood that Narayana word is used to call BhagavAn Narayana, whose other Poorna avatarams (appearance chance without change in kalyana gunas) are Perumal, SriKrishna, SriRama etc…
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When breaking down the meaning (Good I As then) for the Word “Shiva”, it doesn’t represent all Narargal reside (Gyanam) on that person, but the “Popular usage (Loukika artham)” refer to the Shiva demi-god. So Shiva is Not termed as ParamAthma as per the common Paanini grammar between Srivaishnavism and Saivism, roodi as then doesnt reflect the NARAYANA breakdown meaning.
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Same scenario applies to common people or false gurus, example if one has name as NarayAna, then ‘Popular and Etimology’ meaning refers the actual BhagavAn NarayanA in deity forms or other forms, so we are not NarayanA, and we are JeevAthma has just same name as NarayanA.
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Now going back to the question, same rule applies.
The Roodi Atham (Etimology) for
All applies to any Brahmana of any faith who follows it.
Coming back to the Loukika Artham (Popular usage), it immediately refers to Advaitham because, before Sankaracharyas’ birth, the “Veda Bahyargal (one who doesn’t follow Vedas)” Matham’s were flourishing, so Sanjaracharyas first assignment was to establish Veda Maargam by following Shruthi, Smriti etc….. And Sriman NarayanAn as ParamAthma as per Vedas. Due to Sankaracharyas busy assignment and His life span was short, He couldn’t further reveal the Vedas about Chit, Achit & ParamAthma, so He focussed only on “Abedha Shruthi (non-dualism)“. So keeping Advaitam as Base, Swami Ramanujar revealed the Three Tatvams as per “Kataka Shruthi (Dualism)” as “Vishista-Advaitam”.
That’s why using these words smartan etc… refers to “popular usage’ advaitam as advaitam was first of its kind to reestablish Veda Maargam, though ‘etimology’ meaning applies to all who follows it.
Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,
Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu
Thanks for the clarifications, Swami.
I assume this would mean that in our sampradayam too, we have Ghanpaathins, Sroutis, etc., but we do not prefer to title us that ways. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I didn’t have access to internet for the last one week or so, hence couldn’t respond immediately.
-Adiyen
Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruve Namaha,
Dear BhagavAta,
Our PoorvAcharyas neither named oursleves nor denied naming ourselves as Sroutis (Shruthi folowers) or Smarthas (Smirthi followers) etc…..since none of the PoorvAcharyas TITLED themselves as above, they only followed the Shruthi, Smiti, and leter the devotees named the Main Acharyas Teachings/Philosophy as “Adviatam, Dvaitam or Vishista-Adavaitam” etc….for their own following based on Shastras.
Acharya Ramanuja is called “Veda Maargha PrathishtapanaAcharya“. Means one who has re-estabhished the ULTIMATE essence of the Veda/Vedantham/Upanishads (Kata Shruti) for us to follow, So Swami didnot give name as Vishista-Advaitam etc….
So, if one calls us a Advati, then that is also true, since Advaitam is a INCLUSIVE of Vishista-Advaitam. Means if one says everyhing is Brahmam, and nothing elese exists, then we should accept it as, yes, “Everything is Brahmam” as seen above in KatakaShruthi which says, everything (Chit & Achit) is Body of Brahmam.
Swami has said the essence of Vedantham,Upanishads is to understand that we are JeevAthmas who is “Gyanana Swaroopan” (Full of Knowledge & MADE of KNOWLEDGE) and “Paratantran” (Inseperable Dependence on BhagavAn) & “Sheshan” (Absolute Servant to BhagavAn).
So, if we need to title ourselves (JeevATthmas) as per shastras, then we should use the ULTIMATE TITLE for oursleves as ‘Paratantrans and Sheshans‘ instead of the lower level titles Sroutis, Smarthans, Advaithis, Daviathis, Vishita-Advaitis etc…..
Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,
Savam Sri Krishnarpanam Asthu
Thanks, Swami.
I always have this doubt.
I am able to clearly visualise Bhagawan as my antaryaami (who pervades and controls) but still doesn’t intervene with our swantantriyam.
But howsoever I try, I am struggling to understand or visualise that we (chit) and achit as the body of Brahmam. May I know what does that mean and how to visualise it?
Please communicate your bliss on how to meditate and understand this state.
-Adiyen
Sri Ramanujaya Munaye Namaha,
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruve Namaha,
Dear Srivats Bhagavata,
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Arulal, Acharyan Krupayaal, adiyen will SHARE the capsule answer from Swami’s upanyasams. For lucid explanation, please listen to Swami’s “Sri Bashyam” upanyasam.
Regarding “how to visualise that we (chit) and achit as the body of Brahmam”:
Swami has said in the past that in order to understand a SUBJECT or OBJECT of Comparison (உவமேயம்), Poorvacharyas use a SIMILAR/RESEMBLANCE SUBJECT or OBJECT (உவமானம்) to explain.
This is called “Uvamaanam Uvameyam” (உவமானம் உவமேயம்) concept?in Tamil.
In sanskrit it is called “Upamaana Upameya” concept.
Considering the similar object (உவமானம்) as Our Body , Our Dress & Ourselves In order to compare against the Actual unknown object (உவமேயம்) CHIT, Achit & ParamAthma.
Say as an example using Bhagavata itself as the similsr object (உவமானம்),
So, now translate this similar object (உவமானம்) to understand the object of comparison (உவமேயம்) “ The BhagavAn.
One Athma = One ParamAthma,
COUNTLESS cells (Uyirudayadhu/Sentient) = Countless Chit’s (all of us Uyirudayadhu/Sentient),
COUNTLESS fibers (Jada Pirul/In-Sentient) = Countless Achit’s (all the Prakruthi Jada Pirul/In-Sentient).
This is called “Shareera Athma Bhaavam”.
This is how one can visualize everything (Chit’s & Achit’s) are Body of BrahmaM (ParamAthma) using the உவமானம் உவமேயம் concept ?.
Regarding “how to meditate and understand this state.”
Closed eyes Dhyanam is not feasible and recommended for This Kali Yuga, since we cannot visualize BhagavAn. This can visualized in Kali Yuga ONLY through “Thirumeni Dhrishta Dyanam” of BhagavAn’s “Archai/DIETY form” where BhagavAn has compressed Himself in Visual form in Temples. However thus Archai form DOESN’T speak or interact with us, so BhagavAn has again made it easier as “ACHARYA form”, where Acharya interacts and speaks with us.
So overall the huge Brahmam (உவமேயம்) can be visualized and meditated by Visually seeing the உவமானம் Archai/Diety and Acharya forms only, which can be done by anyone who has Aasai.
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Another Uvamaanam reference, There is a tamil movie scene where the heroine dislikes the hero, so the hero says “எங்களை மாதிரி பசங்களை ஒரு தடவை மட்டும் பார்த்தா பிடிக்காது, ஆனால் பார்க்க பார்க்க தான் பிடிக்கும்”. ?
Same way, அர்சை திருமேனியை ஒரு தடவை மட்டும் பார்த்த புரியாது, ஆனால் பார்க்க பார்க்க தான் பெரிய ப்ரஹ்மம் திருமேனி புரியும்….??
Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,
Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu.
Asmad Gurubhyo namah.
In this context, please read Bhagavad Gita 10.39 to 11.8.
(below is a translation I could access over the internet; you may refer to translations in our sampradayam).
10.39: Furthermore, O Arjuna, I am the generating seed of all existences. There is no being – moving or non moving – that can exist without Me.
10.40: O mighty conqueror of enemies, there is no end to My divine manifestations. What I have spoken to you is but a mere indication of My infinite opulences.
10.41: Know that all opulent, beautiful and glorious creations spring from but a spark of My splendor.
10.42: But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe.
11.1: Arjuna said: By hearing the instructions You have kindly given me about these most confidential spiritual subjects, my illusion has now been dispelled.
11.2: O lotus-eyed Lord, I have heard from You in detail about the appearance and disappearance of every living entity and have realised Your inexhaustible glories.
11.3: O greatest of all personalities, O supreme form, though I see You here before me in Your actual position, as You have described Yourself, I wish to see how You have entered into this cosmic manifestation. I want to see that form of Yours.
11.4: If You think that I am able to behold Your cosmic form, O my Lord, O master of all mystic power, then kindly show me that unlimited universal Self.
11.5: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, O son of Prtha, see now My opulences, hundreds of thousands of varied divine and multicolored forms.
11.6: O best of the Bharatas, see here the different manifestations of Adityas, Vasus, Rudras, Asvini-kumaras and all other demigods. Behold the many wonderful things which no one has ever seen or heard of before.
11.7: O Arjuna, whatever you wish to see, behold at once in this body of Mine! This universal form can show you whatever you now desire to see and whatever you may want to see in the future. Everything – moving and nonmoving – is here completely, in one place.
11.8: But you cannot see Me with your present eyes. Therefore I give you divine eyes. Behold my mystic opulence!
From these slokas, I understand the following:
1. Yes, both sentient and non-sentient things are pervaded by Perumal. All things that exist are just a small example of His inexhaustible glories.
2. As Arjuna expresses in 11.3, even he can not conceive the all pervading form of Perumal. In 11.4 Arjuna has to pray to Perumal for such vision. It is to be noted that he does not demand Perumal to give the vision; rather he says, “if you think I am able to behold… then kindly show me”. Only Perumal’s special grace for that divine vision can enable one to see this form of the Perumal.
3. At our stage, the way to conceive Perumal and experience Him is (as indicated in 11.1) is only through sravanam. We see Perumal through the words of our acharyas. To the extent we absorb ourselves in the words of our acharya and live by it, to that extent we can see the beauty of Perumal. Even in arca vigraham of Perumal different people see to different extent. An atheist does not see Perumal at all. In our case, since we have received acharya kataksham to some extent we can see Perumal in arca vigraham to some extent. But person like Danurdasa received acharya karaksham fully that he could see the beauty of the same Periya Perumal far deeper than what I am able to perceive now.
Thank you very much.
Asmad Gurubhyo namah.
adiyen dasan.
Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Thiruvadigalaey Sharanam,
Nandri Bhagavata for sharing some Bhagavata Gita references for closed eyes dhyaanam which is applicable for Upasana Maargam Yogis. For Kali yugam, dyaanam is “Visual Dharshanam of BhagavAn’s Archai/Deity forms” at Temples and at our Home s per our Poorvacharyas.
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So overall the huge Brahmam (உவமேயம்) can be visualized and meditated by Visually seeing the உவமானம் Archai/Diety and Acharya forms only, which can be done by anyone who has Aasai.
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Another Uvamaanam reference, There is a tamil movie scene where the heroine dislikes the hero, so the hero says “எங்களை மாதிரி பசங்களை ஒரு தடவை மட்டும் பார்த்தா பிடிக்காது, ஆனால் பார்க்க பார்க்க தான் பிடிக்கும்”.
Same way, அர்சை திருமேனியை ஒரு தடவை மட்டும் பார்த்த புரியாது, ஆனால் பார்க்க பார்க்க தான் பெரிய ப்ரஹ்மம் திருமேனி புரியும்….
Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,
Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu.
