Disagreed Swamy
You are creating levels for Moksham. Vedam failed to measure Moksham / BrahmAnandam”.

When I don’t value this shareeram no use of yogam.

Unless this shareeram is in Kainkaryam , yogam is waste of time.

Is yogam a Kainkaryam? Please explain? Adiyen honestly don’t know.

Dasanudasan

adiyen Ramanuja dasan
Namaskaram Swamy

Swamy very simple

Shareeram is a tool for jeevatma for practising karma yoga or gnana yoga or bhakti yoga or lots of other yoga

While doing this is yoga jeevatma will have Brahma anubhavam
But it will be temporary ( even after one is in samadhi for 100 years after returning from samadhi once againmind and body returns with karma)

That is Brahmam is the goal and tool is himself that is mind and body or ego

So they need a long life because it is the tool they can’t afford to loose it

But for Prapanan

Tool is Brahmam and goal is Brahmam

Brahmam destroy the mind and its karma

So for Prapanan like Alwars they will be waiting for Brahmam to destroy mind body and its karma and ego

So Alwars cry for destroying the Karma and so the body and mind before Brahmam

So for Prapanan liberation is freedom from the person ( ego or mind or shareeram) not for the person (ego or shareeram)

For yogi liberation is freedom for the person( ego or mind or shareeram)

How beautiful is Prapatti margam

Kodi grateful to SWAMY

for SWAMY ONLY PIONEERED PRAPATTI MARGAM

THAT IS WHY VISHITA ADVAITA IS ALWAYS THE FINAL ROUTE FOR ALL JEEVATMA AFTER ALL PHILOSOPHIES

Swamigal please forgive and correct adiyen

adiyen dasan

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Srimathe Sri Varaha Mahadesikaya Namaha
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam

Sri:
SharanAgathi is not something new.

Gita charama shlokam talks about it.

My question is:
If a yogi, is willing to do SharanAgathi , will Perumal accept or not?

Then why people resist it? Why choose a hard way when there is easy way?

Dasanudasan

Srimate Raamnujaye Namahe,

Swamy beautifully, the very same question you have raised is in the recent Mukundamaalai audio 106, 15th minute.

The answer will come in audio 107, today evening or tomorrow morning.

Adiyen

Thirukachidaasanudasan

adiyen Ramanuja dasan

Namaskaram Swamy

Peruman chooses the margam according to the vasanas of the person

Person (derived out of karma) cannot choose,
he or she will be made to choose by Peruman or Acharya according to his or her vasanas or natural tendency

So yogas may appear difficult for some and prapatti may appear difficult for some and vice versa according to the vasanas

Eventually Yogis will be made to surrender finally by Peruman

So prapatti is the final single route

Easy or difficult is a relative phenomenon created by mind and body as result of karma

It is not true

Nothing is either difficult nor easy

So Peruman will accept because it is Peruman’s choice

Thoughts of adiyen Acharya
adiyen Ramanuja dasan

adiyen Ramanuja dasan
Namaskaram enpanifan Swamy

Yes Acharya anugraham
Peruman is speaking through
Swamy’s mind

It happens automatically once the mind body ego is surrendered

adiyen Ramanuja dasan

adiyen Ramanuja dasan
Namaskaram Swamy

For complete understanding
Listen from Audio 105 itself

adiyen Ramanuja dasan
Namaskaram Swamy

Sorry for repeated replies

Vikraminside Swamy the person Vikram inside has been given the natural tendency or karma for Prapatti margam

This is Peruman’s choice for the person Vikraminside

So Vikraminside got Ramanuja samamdham

Just to speak metaphorically
Nothing personal

Guess got the point

adiyen Ramanuja dasan

karma for Prapatti margamFrom MADAN

அப்படினா என்ன?

Nothing personalFrom MADAN

இதன் பொருள் என்ன?

adiyen Ramanuja dasan
Namaskaram Swamy

adiyen cannot understand the question

Karma for Prapatti margam

In what context the question is asked by Devareer

Please Devareer clarify

Regarding Nothing Personal

adiyen used Swamy’s Thirunamam of this incarnation for a metaphor which is an act of angankaram

So adiyen want to atleast tell by words that the act was not done for adiyen

Devareer porutharulavenumnu prarthikren

Thoughts of adiyen Acharya

adiyen Ramanuja dasan

Swami based on what is typed above “natural tendency or karma for Prapatti margam” I think swamy wanted to say Vaasana for Prapati margam but typed as karma for praptti margam.

Perhaps karma lead to vaasanas , so may be related.

Adiyen

adiyen Ramanuja dasan
Namaskaram kambandasan Swamy

Swamy
“In a moment of frustration in the material life one may submit himself”

What is the reason behind frustration
Why one is in material life
Why one is submitting himself

All because of Karma

One is made to be in material life
One is made to get frustrated
One is made to surrender

Can this be done by oneself
Peruman make it using one”s karma

Devareer correct if adiyen is wrong
Thoughts of adiyen Acharya
adiyen Ramanuja dasan

Swamy above example is for jeevatma like adiyen

adiyen was made to born in totally different environment

Tough Life experiences gifted to adiyen by Peruman made adiyen to surrender before Swamy

But think about many Jeevatmas who are made to born in families where the Jeevatma is made to surrender at a younger age of the body even before life experiences

How one can explain this

so karma is the reason to seek Brahmam
Choice of margam is based on vasanas

Which once again is a customised planned execution by Peruman

thoughts of adiyen Acharya
adiyen Ramanuja dasan

1. One is made to be in material life

2. One is made to get frustrated

3.One is made to surrenderFrom MADAN

1 – true

2 – true

3 – not true. Perumal does not depend on Karma to execute His desires. Simply by His wish He can do anything He wants. If He had to depend on Karma to execute His plans, then the laws of karma would be superior to Him. That is not so.

Karmic laws are subordinate to Him; He is not subordinate to karmic laws. Anyone who takes shelter of Him becomes free from Karma; then how can He depend on Karmic laws to execute His desires?

I our case also, it is not our karma that made us take to saranagathi process; it is acharyan anugraham without any qualification on our part. Can I say I had such n such good quality that I deserved to be gifted with the surrender process? Atleast in my case it is not so.

adiyen dasan.

it is not our karma that made us take to saranagathi process; it is acharyan anugraham From கம்பன்தாசன்

May I know here, whether it is meant acharyan anugraham plays part in pre-saranagathi process. 

adiyen

Swamy,

May I understand your question as follows: “It is obvious that acharyan anugraham is the cause of all auspicious things in our life from the moment we submit ourselves in saranagathi; but is acharyan anugraham the reason that drags us to saranagathi in first place, or it is the karma of the person, or any other factor?”

My current understanding (and faith based on personal experience) is YES it is indeed acharyan anugraham. But for him I would have been lost in the cycle of birth and death for crores of rebirths.

I am not able to cite a specific acharya or scriptural reference to support this understanding. I hope our Velukkudi Swamy will kindly address this.

adiyen dasan.

swamy,

Just after posting, I was listening to my acharya’s upanyasam (just now), as a coincidence.

Swamy has mentioned that எம்பெருமான் நமக்கு கொடுத்த பாக்கியமான ஆசாரிய சம்மந்தம்.

I was trying to point out this through my response implicitly i.e., pre-saranagathi part is not acharyan.

I pray for pardon from my acharya if there is any mistake in my understanding.

adiyen

adiyen Ramanuja dasan

Namaskaram kambandasan Swamy

Swamy Devararer is right Acharya anugraham only makes a Jeevatma to surrender no doubt

But who is Acharya why Acharya gives anugraham

There can be only one Acharya with many avatars that is Peruman

Acharya anugraham is sought only to eradicate karma

So obviously karma is the reason a Jeevatma seeks Acharya anugraham

Very obvious that Devareer told the same thing

Next is

Peruman will not depend on Karma rather uses it so equality prevails

then how Devarareer can explain why duriyodhanan was made to act in such a way by Bhagwan Sri Krishna and Arjuna was made to act in such a way and so on

If duriyodhanan asks why I was choosen to do that , definitely it is Peruman’s wish but Peruman cannot be blamed because Peruman uses the Karma

So to prevail justice and sustain Leela Karma is used

Thoughts of adiyen Acharya

adiyen Ramanuja dasan

adiyen Ramanuja dasan
Namaskaram Swamy

Kambandasan Swamy

adiyen is sure devararer have heard this metaphor by Swamy in one of Swamy’s upanyasam

In a medical school the professor has so much love for his students that he wants all his students to be good surgeon

For that he cannot make everyone pass the exam without properly training them even though he has the power to do so

He has to put mark and train accordingly and make sure the student can do surgery independently.

And if a student cannot pass the exam he cannot go and ask the professor that why you didn’t pass me but gave pass to my friend even though you loved both of us equally and you want both of us to be surgeon

Devareer can understand what will happen if professor gives pass to all students out of love and because he has power to do so and it doesn’t mean marks obtained by the students control the professor

everything is happening automatically we jeevatma will one day reach Vaikundam that is the rule and it is executed by Peruman

Swamy thank you very much for Devareers replies

thoughts of adiyen Acharya
adiyen Ramanuja dasan

Kambandasan Swamy also remember tough situation is important for a Jeevatma

Remember Kunti praying Krishna for trouble because according to Kunti only if there is trouble she is able to remember Sri Krishna

So trouble is good
and so negative karma
But that doesn’t mean adiyen encouraging to make negative karma

IT is all Peruman Leela

thoughts of adiyen Acharya
adiyen Ramanuja dasan

Kambandasan Swamy

If Devareer can see deeper
Both adiyen and Devareer are telling the same point but in a different way

This is Peruman’s Leela

Swamy lets close the thread

adiyen Ramanuja dasan