வானரம், கோபியர் – பெருமாள் தேர்வு சரியா?

Updated on April 10, 2023 in Avatars
6 on April 6, 2023

ஸ்ரீ வேளுக்குடி சுவாமிகளுக்கு அடியேன் நமஸ்காரம்
பாகவதர்களுக்கும் அடியேன் நமஸ்காரம்

பெருமாள் ராமனாக அவதாரம் எடுக்கும் போது, தேவர்களே வானரமாக தோன்றினர். கண்ணனாக அவதாரம் எடுக்கும் போது, தேவர்களே கோபியராக கூடவே தோன்றினர். ஆழ்வார்கள் 12 பேர்களும் நித்யசூரியின் அம்சம். ஆச்சார்யர்களில் நாதமுனிகள், உய்யக்கொண்டார் முதல் ராமானுஜர், மணவாள மாமுனிகள் எல்லாரும் நித்யசூரியின் அம்சம்.

இப்படி இருக்கும் போது, ராமனிடத்தில் வானரம் பக்தியோடு இருந்ததோ, கண்ணனிடத்தில் கோபியர்கள் பக்தியோடு இருந்ததோ, ஆழ்வார்கள் பக்தியோ, ஆச்சாரியர்கள் பக்தியோ, வைராக்கியமோ – இதில் ஆச்சார்யப்படுவதற்கு என்ன இருக்கிறது?

இதை அடியேன் பொறமையாக கேட்கவில்லை. அடியேனைப் போன்று ஒரு தாழ்ந்த பிறவியை ஒரு வானரம் போலவோ, கோபியர் போலவோ மாற்றினால் தானே, பெருமாள் என்னைப் போல ஒருவனைக் கூட அந்த பக்தியின், வைராக்கியத்தின் உயரத்திற்குத் தூக்கிக் கொண்டு போவார் என்று தைரியம் வரும்?

ஞானத்தில் நம் விட உயர்ந்த நித்யசூரிகளையோ, தேவர்களையோ இந்த பூமியில் பக்தியின் உதாரணமாக பெருமாள் காட்டிக்கொடுப்பது அடியேனுக்கு பயத்தை தானே கொடுக்கிறது!

அடியேன் ராமானுஜ தாசன்

 
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4 on April 6, 2023

Srimate Raamanujaye Namahe,

Very interesting question swamy. Have had similar thoughts before. But what about examples of Mukthatmas like Nardhamuni etc. who attained pure devotional service from a conditioned normal human state. That should inspire us perhaps.

Adiyen

 

Namaskaram Swami, 

adiyen views this in 2 parts. 1st Gopikaas were great rishis who did serious penance during Ramavatharam and wanted to unite with the Lord. Since He was eka patni virathan, so made them take birth in Krishnavatar to satisfy their request. Our Swami has said multiple times that even anyone of us can become Brahma leave alone devathaas. This means any jeevaatma other than the nityasuris have done so much to get to that status. 2nd, the purpose behind them taking birth among us is to inspire us (not to scare us) and show that the Lord will certainly make us muktatmas, if we also do bhakti like them and for even fallen jeevas like adiyen, who can’t even do Bhakti properly, He asked us to surrender to Udayavar who will take care of the rest. 

Kshamikka Prathikkuren. 

adiyen. 

Also to devareer’s question headline, “Why He chose them”, naturally anyone will choose the best to show examples like He choosing His primary divine consort, the universal mother as Sita Mata to showcase how serious is to do offense to a devotee. In today’s life, like Boost choosing Sachin Tendulkar for their ad 🙂 

on April 7, 2023

Srimate Raamanujaye Namaha.

Swami, i think the question emphasizes more on how can we get inspired by Nityasuris as they are already fixed in their devotion and so seeing them we cannot imitate , we can only appreciate them, so if there are more examples of mukthatmas that might inspire us.

Also reg the Boost ad, we all know that is not because of Boost that Sachin became a good player. He is naturally talented, so we know that just by taking Boost we cannot become like him, the question above is along that line.. “we are by nature conditioned, we cannot imitate Nityasuris and become like them..”

So if you can share more examples of normal beings becoming mukthatmas, then it might be useful for us to get inspired.

Adiyen

 

Swami, adiyen referred to Boost ad to only insist on the point “that to inspire/attract the common man, even the materialists select the best” nothing more than that. There are so many examples from our Acharya history. For eg: take the example of the மோர் விற்கும் மூதாட்டி, who was a commoner like us with no knowledge received liberation from Udayavar. We can take inspiration from them. 

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0 on April 10, 2023

Swami

Gopikaas and vanaras are typical examples
Answer is obvious only thing is it should be perceived from a different plane

See, these questions should be answered

1.did gopikaas and vanaras after manifesting still remember what they really are?

2.Did Sri Rama and Sita mata after manifesting still remember what they really are?

3.Did Ravanas after manifesting still remember what they really are ?

If the answer is NO , that is if everyone still remember their true nature and just pretended to show love , happiness, sacrifice, austerity, sadnesses, love, bravery etc then whatever have been told in Sri Ramayana cannot be accepted, because it is easy to pretend to be suffering or sacrifice or to be honest than to be real , that cannot be an example, it can be easily told that Sri Rama know that nothing will happen to Sita mata, he simply acted to be in full of sorrow without her – there is nothing great in this and this cannot be taken as an example

If the answer is YES , that is if everyone forget the true divine nature and manifest,. then the experience of emotions is going to be real, the suffering and sacrifice is going to be real, the hard route of honesty and bravery is going to be real etc etc – this kind of manifestation is going to be the best way to set an example and acceptable

So though gopikaas and vanaras are of divine nature,they showed devotion and sacrifice not remembering their divine nature but only after forgetting it, That is they completely forgot their true nature, IN THIS PERSPECTIVE THEY WERE NO DIFFERENT FROM US IN THE MANIFESTED STATE

Imagine the sacrifice made by the divinity – forgetting its true nature and pursuing an incredible painful journey to once again reach its divine nature for the sake of love

And what if everyone are in that forgetful oblivious state, in an incredible journey to recognize the true nature , in the same way gopikaas and vanaras were and what if they were examples of how to reach the true nature

In this perspective the example of gopikaas and vanaras are more than perfect for everyone.

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