Humble pranaams, Swami !
We all know vedam talks about everything under the sun ! It is for individuals to choose their swadharma and follow.
However even in ‘Siriya Thirumadal’, Thirumangai Azhwar seems to take an analogy of hunting Rabbit vs Crow to elicit the significance of Archavatharam.
Though the essence or the inner meaning is supreme, why should Azhwar have chosen such an analogy that appears inferior ?
–
Adiyen
It is for individuals to choose their swadharma and follow.
Really swamy? My understanding is, ‘swadharma’ is defined by one’s varna and one’s ashrama. could you please explain what is your understanding. dhanyosmi.
However even in ‘Siriya Thirumadal’, Thirumangai Azhwar seems to take an analogy of hunting Rabbit vs Crow to elicit the significance of Archavatharam.Kindly share the analogy fully to make it clear for those of us who are not aware of the reference you are quoting. dhanyosmi.
Really swamy? My understanding is, ‘swadharma’ is defined by one’s varna and one’s ashrama. could you please explain what is your understanding. dhanyosmi.
Yes, Swami ! I don’t beg to differ and did mean the same.
Kindly share the analogy fully to make it clear for those of us who are not aware of the reference you are quoting. dhanyosmi.
The prabandham ending “ஏரார் முயல் விட்டுக் காக்கை பின் போவதே?”
http://divyaprabandham.koyil.org/index.php/2020/03/siriya-thirumadal-7/
– Adiyen
Srivats swamy, namaskaram.
Thank you for sharing the koyil.org link. I have not heard explanation of this from any acharya. Simply by reading the link you have shared, I have a question.
Here Thirumangai aazhwaar is addressing young damsels. This makes me wonder if he is referring to hunting eating the two animals, or is he referring to one’s choice for a pet between these two animals. I have not heard of any references where women hunt; this makes me consider may be aazhwaar was referring to choice between these two animals as a pet.
Rabbit, we can handle it, take care of it; it will be near us, and we can easily express our love for the rabbit. Crow will fly away, sits on a tree and is beyond our reach. So, we can not show love to it as a pet. In this light the analogy seems to match what the aazhwaar is expressing – the superiority of Archa-thirumeni over Parathvam.
I hope I will get to hear from knowledgeable periyavas to know how poorvaacharyas have explained this.
adiyen dasan
I checked in the same site and would like to bring to your notice :-
http://divyaprabandham.koyil.org/index.php/2018/03/siriya-thirumadal/
wherein it is mentioned that
“periyavAchchAn piLLai has composed a beautiful commentary for this prabandham. Let us enjoy this wonderful prabandham with the help of this commentary”
and also it is mentioned as
“Translation by santhAna rAmAnuja dhAsan”
It indicates that the detail given is the translation by santhAna rAmAnuja dhAsan on the commentary of periyavAchchAn piLLai.
adiyen
You are right, Swami ! I have not referred to any explanation of poorvacharyas.
But more than one site talks about this piece of work from the perspective of hunting.
https://ramanuja.org/sri/BhaktiListArchives/Article?p=oct2002/0082.html
There is no debate about the supremacy of the allegory but only about the object of comparison.
Here again we are analysing it within the limitations of our knowledge.
May be, Azhwar might have created this invaluable allegory more like a journal of what he saw a hunter doing, perhaps !
Let me await opinion from everyone but thanks for sharing your perspective too, Swami !
– Adiyen
Namaskaram Swamy
What is appearing inferior in the analogy?
And Object of comparison – which object is inferior?
How can one tell one thing is inferior
What is the criteria to tell one thing is inferior and other thing is superior when Peruman is everything
Srimate Rammanujaye Namaha,
I think alwaars sang the songs so that all wide audience from all classes of society can take up to devotion.
So this paasuram might be very effective for those who practice hunting.
They try to connect all classes of people to Bhagawaan.
I am not sure if this was alwaars intent..but Lord would have inspired so..for many other reasons as well.
Adiyen
Thirukachidaasanudasan
Namaskaram enpanifan Swamy
Swamy Divyaprabandam and Alwars , Poorvacharyas and the way they lived is beyond the boundaries of Logic or Rationalism
Logic or Rationalism is the foundation upon which ego or angankaram stands strongly
And ego or angankaram is the only impurity obscuring Reality
Alwars and Poorvacharyas had something common in them through which they went beyond logic and experienced the Illogic
Today western culture which is completely dependent upon logic and rationalism is suffering because it is not possible to reach peace by rationalism
When the westerners come across Illogical way of living like Krishna Bhakti and Krishna Consciousness by ISKCON etc etc they experience the peace and the community is growing
Similarly the Indian community because of severe western influence started to live logically or rationally and at the same time there is a risk of expecting logic or rationality in the ancient Scriptures like Divya prabandam , Sri Bharatam, Sri Ramayanam as well as the way Alwars and Poorvacharyas lived
If one expects logic or rationality in the above two scenarios there is a risk of loosing true and natural Bhakti and so Bhakti should be forced into them mechanically because one cannot expect logic or rationality in Divya prabandam or Sri Bharatam or the way Alwars and Poorvacharyas lived
That is not real Bhakti it is mechanical
By saying that The Alwars and Poorvacharyas lived Illogical adiyen is not trying to tell that they don’t know logic or rationality
Nobody knows logic better than Udayavar
Nobody can stand before Swami when it comes for debate of logic
Nobody can explain Brahman logically better than Swami
But Swami is also aware that logic is not going to work
Surrendering to Illogic is the only option
Same is the scenario with Alwars
Same is the scenario with Sri Alavandar and so on
How blissful is to experience the illogical way of explaining the Illogic through poetry
That is Divya prabandam
There is no match to Divya prabandam not even Vedas
Divya prabandam melts the logic upon which ego rests
The most blessed soul will be around Divya prabandam
Epitome of Illogic BHAGWAN SRI KRISHNA can be experienced in Divya prabandam
Once one experiences the Illogic no more questions will arise – only bliss and Non action will be there
Alwars are complete incarnation of Peruman
And Divya prabandam is Peruman
Divya prabandam is illogical it is beyond the realm of logic and mind
To give that experience to all Jeevas
Swami and all Poorvacharyas have done a lot for which adiyen believe nothing can be done in return except being as they wished
adiyen
Srimate Raamanujaye Namaha,
Dhanyosmi Swami for reminding about not to try to apply logic in these divine songs.
I just tried to answer the question out of curiosity. Apologies.
Adiyen
Speaking for myself, I know I am part of Bhagawaan’s shareeram because that is what our acharyas have taught me. Yet, despite knowing, when it comes to my daily conduct I behave as if I am independent of Bhagawaan. I behave as if I am the bhoktha, I am the master and everything around is for my pleasure. In my current baddha stage I have such lowly awareness of myself. Therefore I am a neechan.
So, there is no contradiction in such description of oneself.
adiyen.
Swami,
This question was posed by adiyen, hence requesting everyone not to seek apologies.
The very purpose of this forum is to seek clarifications from this satsangam on topics that are seemingly difficult to understand and comprehend.
As long as we all maintain the dignity of this forum (whether in terms of questioning or answering), there is no need for seeking apologies, in adiyen’s humble opinion.
Madan swami’s point well taken, but my idea was not to question the rationale of poorvacharyas, rather seek the right understanding from this satsangam.
Though the essence or the inner meaning is supreme, why should Azhwar have chosen such an analogy that appears inferior ?
It was, for this reason, adiyen was careful in mentioning “…why should Azhwar have…” and “…that appears…” in my original query.
– Adiyen
Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Srimathe Sri Varaha Mahadesikaya Namaha
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam
Sri:
You are correct Swamy. Rabbit meat tastier than crow meat. My father used to quote this pAsuram and keep laughing.
There is nothing good or bad about it.
Azhwars have sung for all occasions.
Thalai aruppadhey karumam
Vs
Vallal arthuthu chudinum
Let us come out of this mobile mania and ask our father , mother , uncle, grandfather, grandmother or any old people.
I don’t see many references made by old people in Google. It includes old cinema songs.
For example one lord Shiva song one para fully cut but not available in YouTube.
My mother insisted it is there, I checked lyrics database from archived records it was there.
So yeah, Internet wants you to know what it has and not what it actually is.
Dasanudasan
