Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Swami,
Are we trying to limit athmA by making it countable?
Dasanudasan
Are athmAs countable?
Updated on April 4, 2018 in
Good qualities for human
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Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruve Namaha,
Beautiful. Adiyen has heard Swami using a Sand (Aatru Manal) example.
Please forgive afiyen if any errors based on adiyen’s remembrance capacity.
* The Sand in the ‘River bed’ cannot be counted (countless qty’s/hence infinite).
* The Size of ‘BASKET’ that a laborer uses to take Sand from river bed can be defined, but the Quantity of Sand in the Basket cannot be counted (again countless qy’s/hence infinite)
* Size of a ‘TRUCK’ can be Defined, but the ‘Each sand in the truck’ cannot be counted (countless qty’s).
Sand is Jeevtahmas (Countless Qty’s/hence infinite)
Basket is Leela Vibhoothi (can be defined as 1/4th size)
Truck is Nithya Vibhoothi (can be deifned as 3/4th size)
But, Quantity of Jeevathmas (Sand) in ech Basket and Truck cannot be counted (countless Qty’s).
This is just a literal reference for discussion, as the ‘Defined’ defintion is True, means, we cannot MEASURE the size as it is Infinite. LIke, size is 10 to the power of many digits which we cannot measure. Adiyen has heard that Swami Ramanujar ‘Vaikunta Gadhyam’ grantham says about the Vistharam (size) of NIthya Vibhoothi (SriVaikuntam), how the borders are being set by huge Walls.
This also provides some answer to BhagavtAs another question in different thread about 1/4th & 3/4th size definition.
As how Bhagavan SriKrishna’s Kalya Gunas are countless, the number of Athmas in this Materialistic world (Samsaram) and in Spiritual world (SriVaikuntam) is also countless, and the size of both worlds can be Defined as 1/4th & 3/4th as Swami says “ThriPath Vibhoothi for SriVaikuntam”, but literally both worlds cannot be measured as it is huge/infinite…….
Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr THiruvAdi,
Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu
Namaskaram
It is a very relevant and useful example.
Extending on the same lines.. if we have a ocean which is three times as bigger than another one..then though both have infinite number of water particles/drops…the bigger one is has three times more particles….though both are infinite…
So that is how probably size of material world is estimated.
I have another thought as well.. I will post it in the main direct thread dicussing about the size of the material world vs spirtual world..
adiyen
namaskAram Swamy
A drop is still a drop, an ocean is still an ocean. It’s not infinite. As long as border is set by any means nothing is qualified to be infinite.
This includes Kongilpiratti’s ”
Swami Ramanujar ‘Vaikunta Gadhyam’ grantham says about the Vistharam (size) of NIthya Vibhoothi (SriVaikuntam), how the borders are being set by huge Walls.”
This means Srivaikuntam is not infinite. Finite means limit. Infinite means without limits. If borders are set for Nithya vihboothi , it’s infinite only by time and not by distance.
Only if sun comes and goes on earth we realize time, else we don’t realise time.
Dasanudasan
NamaskAram Swamy,
The result of operations on infinity should be infinity. Akshaiyam limitless. Here 1-0.5=0.5. AthmAs are not finite by any means.
My boss was asking me “then what you get when you subtract infinity from infinity”?
Infinity – infinity = 0?
Adiyen said
Infinity – Infinity = Infinity
Because infinity is boundary less that’s why it’s called infinity
Am not good in maths but logically this is what adiyen find convincing
Dasanudasan
Namskaram Swamy
For most of the operations involving infinity result is infinity ..but there are some cases which need not be so.
One such example is explained in this thread..https://www.kinchit.org/dharma-sandeha/thread/bhaghawans-boundary-definable/
the example i mentioned above is the number of numbers between 0 and 1 they are two finite nos.. but there are uncountable decimal numbers in between them..in fact you can even take any sub interval like 0 and 0.1 still they have infinite nos in between..
there are infinite intervals having infinite nos in between..
so they are infinite by count by finite by value..
so they can be situations where something is finite by spatial dimension by infinite in count (sand particles in a basket).. similarly it can be finite in space but infinite in power (like Super Soul)
Actually it is a vague area , hopefully it helps.
Adiyen
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Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Excellent answers from KomalSrini2000 and kongilpiratti bhAgavathAs.
Adiyen asked the question in wrong way. The context was, can AthmA be distinguished to separate one from another.
Let’s say, my athmA, your AthmA, NithyA, BaddhA, MukhthA.
My AthmA becomes mukthA. Devar’s, at the point in time still BaddhA. So adiyen see 2 AthmAs in question here.
Are we not counting AthmAs by this way? When adiyen say limit , adiyen mean swaroopa lakshana. As adiyen still have confusions in Roopa LakshanA of an Athma.
Adiyen imagine Athma to a cotton ball of light. As it cannot be cut, torn, dried or destroyed as Krishna said in Bhagavath Gita.
Does Athma have a size , if yes why or how?
How can one differentiate one athmA from another? Is it based on karma?
If karmA is removed , then what difference does it make for KomalSrini2000 ‘s Athma, Kongilpiratti’s Athma and my AthmA?
Why does it sound to have 3 AthmAs here? What is the size of the AthmA? What does Angushta mAthra Purusha: mean? Sthoola or Sookshma Shareeram? If it’s Sookshma is it first of all a Shareeram as it is so subtle?
To summarise, the question is not infinite or not. The question is, why numeric? Let it be uncountable. Why uncountable , how come count is involved?
Dasanudasan
Namaskaram,
Srimate Ramnujaye namaha,
Currently in material world atma is distinguished by the body it sits in based on its karma..however when one is liberated from Karma, soul is identified by its relationship with Lord,(friend, servant, parent, etc)ie by the nitya kainkaryam the atma is doing.
I also suppose vaisnava philosophies explain there is distinct spirtual body for each soul..
what you have asked is the essential point of difference between adwaitam and vaishnava philosophies.
adiyen.
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Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Dhanyosmi Swami
Answered in 977
Naayen vandhu adaindhEn
Dasanudasan
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