Swami firstly my due respect and thanks for enlightening us with spiritual knowledge.? I have admirations, love and true bakthi towards Lord Rama. However, this question keeps pestering my mind when looking at so many women easily getting offended on their character by the other people or by the husband himself at some times. Why did Rama not tell his people that his Queen Sita’s or any woman’s character is not something everyone could gossip or talk ill about instead of sending Sita to exile? Elders tell me that he wanted to be a responsible king in the first place. But at the same time is it a good dharma to send someone pure like Sita or even any woman for that matter to exile? Please help us understand it better Swami.
Clarification on Rama katha
Updated on December 13, 2019 in
Holy Books
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adiyen is also asking for the understanding behind the same.
Swamy, adiyen is learnt from Velukkudi Swamy’s numerous upanyasams about why Rama had to send back Sita Thayar to forest when Thayar was carrying the children (Lava and Kusha). Thayar wanted to give birth to the children in midst of rishis and sages which was her wish. Rama wanting to fulfill the wish enacted the plan of someone talking bad about Thayar and taking that as reason, Rama had to send Sita Thayar to forest.
Swamy, adiyen understands the explanation behind this story would be perfect. adiyen wanted to enquire, that since Sita’s wish was to be in forest only during time of delivery and shortly thereafter, should not she have come back to Ayodhya to stay with Rama along with children shortly after delivery? I.e Her wish was only to be in forest during delivery. If it is said that the story which Rama enacted was to keep Sita completely in forest forever, then is not that a bad kind of act enacted..
We say that Bhagavan has agatana-gatana samarthyam, i.e He can achieve everything and also complete the impossible, so if Sita mata’s wish was for delivery amongst sages, and not there after (Thayar did not wish to be in forest forever), then Rama being sarvajna can have arranged for such a scenarion in which Sita THayar could have given delivery in forest and then come back to Ayodhya short afterwards.
the Initial 16 gunangal of Rama has kas samarthasya (being dexterous, skillful and champ in arranging etc), why this kind of poor scenario of bringing bad light to Sita, then completely sending her to forest forever was arranged by Rama? He could have perfectly arranged a more agreeable scenario?
Also, Swamy, why Rama did not tell Sita Thayar of the plans and the acts which He planned so that Sita Thayar did not get disturbed and felt bad that Rama had sent her to forest? Sita Thayar felt extremely heart broken when she came to know about this from Lakshmana.
adiyen is extremely ignorant of the stories and inner purports in Sri Ramayanam. adiyen thoroughly believes that Rama is blemishless. adiyen is fully ignorant of the facts. adiyen just wishing to get some clarification and fully depend on Rama and enjoy His qualities.
Please forgive adiyen and kindly please give some clarifications.
Thanking you,
Gautam
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adiyen is also asking for the understanding behind the same.
Swamy, adiyen is learnt from Velukkudi Swamy’s numerous upanyasams about why Rama had to send back Sita Thayar to forest when Thayar was carrying the children (Lava and Kusha). Thayar wanted to give birth to the children in midst of rishis and sages which was her wish. Rama wanting to fulfill the wish enacted the plan of someone talking bad about Thayar and taking that as reason, Rama had to send Sita Thayar to forest.
Swamy, adiyen understands the explanation behind this story would be perfect. adiyen wanted to enquire, that since Sita’s wish was to be in forest only during time of delivery and shortly thereafter, should not she have come back to Ayodhya to stay with Rama along with children shortly after delivery? I.e Her wish was only to be in forest during delivery. If it is said that the story which Rama enacted was to keep Sita completely in forest forever, then is not that a bad kind of act enacted..
We say that Bhagavan has agatana-gatana samarthyam, i.e He can achieve everything and also complete the impossible, so if Sita mata’s wish was for delivery amongst sages, and not there after (Thayar did not wish to be in forest forever), then Rama being sarvajna can have arranged for such a scenarion in which Sita THayar could have given delivery in forest and then come back to Ayodhya short afterwards.
the Initial 16 gunangal of Rama has kas samarthasya (being dexterous, skillful and champ in arranging etc), why this kind of poor scenario of bringing bad light to Sita, then completely sending her to forest forever was arranged by Rama? He could have perfectly arranged a more agreeable scenario?
Also, Swamy, why Rama did not tell Sita Thayar of the plans and the acts which He planned so that Sita Thayar did not get disturbed and felt bad that Rama had sent her to forest? Sita Thayar felt extremely heart broken when she came to know about this from Lakshmana.
adiyen is extremely ignorant of the stories and inner purports in Sri Ramayanam. adiyen thoroughly believes that Rama is blemishless. adiyen is fully ignorant of the facts. adiyen just wishing to get some clarification and fully depend on Rama and enjoy His qualities.
Please forgive adiyen and kindly please give some clarifications.
Thanking you,
Gautam
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Sri:
Most upanyasams stop at SitaRama Pattabhishekam. Uttara Ramayana is not discussed especially in south India.
When a north girl asked why did YOUR Rama sent sitha to forest when pregnant? I became speechless.
Sita piraatti or Rama wished Rishi anugraha for baby was not convincing explanation for me even from Velukkudi swami’s discourses.
May be Lord Ram did not want to enjoy earthly life as he was not here to do it
I second the question of the post. Even as a Rama bhaktha adiyen cannot digest that act.
Rama should not have sent Sita piraatti to forest and should have lived together happily ever after.
Let Ram come and answer me, how can he send my mother to forest?
this Bhaktha has put his question SO BEAUTIFULLY, esp. the last line; it comes from the heart.
Swamy, please help us understand this.
Dasan Adiyen
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Listened to Swami’s recent audio on why some questions are not being answered by him. It was logically correct. Though I am not sure under what category this question falls, I am still longing for some light to be thrown on this topic.
A passionate Girl devotee of Vishnu _/\_
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Adiyen swami
Sri u ve swami clearly explained Thai situation is due to bhagavatha abacharam .. please valmiki ramayanam or kamba Ramayanam of u ve swami ..
when Marichan came as golden fake deer ., as per matha wish rama went to get it .. as time passed marichan shouted as rama and fell down , matha was in fear and telling lakshmana to go and see rama .. but lakshmana ignore and told matha safety is first , rama will be fine .. but matha hurt lakshmana ji with some hurtful words and so lakshmana have to go as per matha wish .. as he went outside ravana kidnapped Sita matha .. so rama have to leave siya matha after their vanavasam as Bhagwan won’t forgive bhagavatha apacharam .. that’s the main reason .
Jai Srimannarayana
Ashmad gurupyo namah
Sri mate ramanujaya namaha
Sri u ve Krishnan swami thiruvadigale saranam
Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Yes told by Thirukkudanthai Andavan Swamy in AchArya Ramamrutham for fire bath. What about the prAyaschitham? Was it not considered?
We know fire god got burns because of pirAtti ‘s pathivrathA thanmai.
Question is why SriRam sent again?
It could be that SriRam feels his property should accept him without any doubts.
SitA PirAtti is beyond all and she is teaching us how to behave with parama BhAgavathAs.
Dasanudasan
If we listen carefully while Sita PirAtti reminds to protect Maha Rishis saying “the bow is resting idle & rusting” SriRam says “Hey SitA I will even leave you but not my bhAgavathAs”. It became true. SriRAm is Sathya Sankalpan la adhAn .
Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
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Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami ThiruvAdigalaey Sharanam,
Super BhagavAta for sharing Kalakshepa Artham (deep meanings) from Swami’s Pravachanams.
Adiyargal Thiruvadikku pallandu.
Swami also has said in one of the enpani that, with in devotees there are two types:
1) Sheshatvam: One who does kainkaryam to BhagavAn based based on Their own wish. Like Lakshmana went to do kainkaryam to SriRama and Sita, eventhough SriRama said yo him ‘not’ to come forest during HIS exile. But lakshmana went with them agsins Rama’s wish.
2) Parathantriyam: One who does Kainkaryam to BhagavAn based on BhagavAn’s wish. Like Bharathan Azhvan (Rama’s brother). Rama told him not to acvomoany HIM in forest and told him to lookafter Ayodhya Rajyam. Though Bharathan was sad, syill he followed Rama’s orders and took SriRamas “Padhuka” along with Him.
No doubht, both Sheshatvam and Parathatriyam are Kainkaryams, but within these two type of Ksinjaryams, “Parathatriyam” supercedes ‘Sheshatvam, since it is done based on BhagavAns wish. So Swami says Bharathan us better than Lakshmana, hence Bharathan is called as “Bharatha Azhvan”.
Sita Piratti’s decision to go forest is to show us the “Parathatriyam” nature of Athma rather than the Sheshatvam nature of Athma.
Whatever BhagavAn says, we have to follow, so Sita Piratti went to forest when SriRama told HER to do so.
Swami says, it is actually “Sitayanam” and not “Ramayanam”.
Without Sita Maatha, Rama BhagavAn has no identification.
Alwar paasuram “AgalakillEn Irayum Endru, AlarmEl Mangai uRaimaar’bha…..
Adiyargal Vaazha Aranganagar Vaazha, Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamiye innum oru NootruAandu Irumm.
Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,
Sita Mayya Sri Rama BhagavAN Ki Jai,
Sarvam SriKrisharpanam Asthu.
If that’s the case ShatrughnAzhWAn is 1000 times BharathAzhwAn who is 1000 times SriRAm because of bhAgavatha Kainkaryam
Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruvae Namaha,
Dear Vikram BhagavAta,
There are two types of Kainkaryam.
BhagavAt kainkaryama and BhagavAtA kainkaryam.
1) BhagavAt Kainkarysm (Service to BhagavAn).
Sheshatvam and Parathsntriyam are with in BhagavAt kainkaryam, inside shich Parathantriyam (BharathAzhvan) is superior to Sheshatvam (Sri Lakshmana).
The above Swamis audio is about BhagavAt kainkaryam.
2) BhagavAtA kainkaryam (service to a BhagavAtA who is doing a DEDICATED BhagavAt kainkaryam to BhagavAn.
Then that, BhagavAta kainkaryam is superior to BhagavAt kainkaryam. Moreover such BhagavAta’s considers himself as full of sin/paapaam.
Like BharatAzhwan is a BhagavAta who DEDICATEDLY did kainkaryam to BhagavAn SriRama. Also HE considered himself as paapi (took all ths responsiblilty for SriRama’s exile to forest by blaming himself that if, HE wouldn’t have seperated himself from SriRama by going to Kekeya Rajyam, then all this SriRama’s exile wouldn’t have happened).
This is a BhagavAtA lakshanam.
So, Shatrugnan who did service ONLY to such a BhagavAta (BharathAzhvan) is superior kainkaryam and is a great BhagavAtA kainkaryam.
Another reference of BhagavAtA kainkaryam from Swami’s pravachanams.
NamAlwar is a BhagavAta who did DEDICATED kainkaryam to BhagavAn. But Madhurakavi Alwar did kainkaryam ONLY to NamAlwar. So such ksinkaryam is BhagavAtA kainkaryam and is superior.
There are NO such BhagavAtas like BharthAzhvan who does kainkaryam to BhagavAn without any “Suyanalam” EXCEPT FEW in divya desams in this practical world. So being like a Shatrugna (doing service to a BhsgsvAta) is very difficult situation in this practical world, unless we can find one BhagavAtA like BharathAzhvan in this practical world, who does “Thannalam attra” kainkaryam to BhagavAn.
Moreover the above topic is about BhagavAt kainkaryam and not about BhagavAtA kainkaryam, so the related BhagsvAt kainkaryam (Shestavsm/Parathantriyam) were discussed, and Parathantriyam( BharathAzhvan kainkaryam) is superior to Shesatvam (SriLakshmana’s kainkaryam).
Nandri BhagavAtA for bringing up additional question about BhagavAta kainkaryam.
Ofcourse, BhagavAta kainkaryam is superior to BhagavAt kainkaryam, if it is done to a BhagavAtA who is doing Parathantriyam (BhagavAt kainkaryam) greater than Shesatvam (BhagavAt kainkaryam).
Like BharathAzhvan was doing Parathantriyam (greater than Sheshatvam), and Shatrugnan was doing dedicated kainkaryam to BharathAzhvan. Hence that BhagavAta Kainkaryam by Shatrugnan is superior, since it was done to a BhagsvAtA who was doing Parathantriyam. Adiyarkku adiyaar…..
This is what SitaPiratti tried to portray, how we JeevAthmas should behave with BhagavAn (enpani 568).
1) Irakkam/mercy on other jeevAthmas,
2) Parathantriyam,
3) Ananyargatvam.
SitaPiratti is always on SriRamas hrudhaya kamalam (never seperated) like NamAlwar paaduram “AgalakillEn Irayum Endru, AlarmEl Mangai uRaimaar’bha……….).
Adiyaargal Vaazha, Aranga Nagar Vaazha, Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamiye innum oru NootruAandu Irumm.
Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,
Sarvam SriKrisharpanam Asthu.
Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
So ShatrughnAzhWAn is greatest of All. He did bhAghavatha kainkaryam.
PerumAlukku kainkaryam Panna 1000 per irukka bhAghavathAlukku yAr kainkaryam pandradhu?
So always bhAghavatha kainkaryam is better than Bhagavath kainkaryam.
If adiyen were present in Srimad Ramayanam adiyen would have done kainkaryam to Lakshmana Swamy or Shatrughna Swamy
Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Dasanudasan
Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Seri practicalla pesuvom. Sri Madhavankku ther (chariot). Veyil thagigkardhu. BhAghavathA Thiruvadi poriyardhu.
Yaarum roadil 1 sottu theertham vidalai. Theertham vitta road sudAthu but vidalai.
Nowadays everybody is getting physically weaker due to adulteration in food.
Next time let us not be surprised if engine is powering MadhavaPerumal’s chariot
Dasanudasan
Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruvae Namaha,
Yes, thats what adiyen said in above thread referring to Swami’s Pravachanams.
BhagavAtA kainkaryam is superior to BhagavAt kainkaryam. Please refer back again.
One does kainkairyam to BhagavAn based on BhagavAn’s ThiruUllam DEDICATEDLY is a BhagavAtA (Parathantriyam greater than Sheshatvam). Like BharathAzhwan to SriRama.
Doing kainkaryam to such a BhagavAtA is superior “BhagavAtA” kainkaryam. Like Shatrugnan to BharatAzhvan.
Without BhagavAt kainkaryam, there is no existence of a BhagavAtA and hence no further BhagavAtA kainkaryam is possible, since it is a again reaction.
So when we do BhagavAtA kainkaryam to anyone, what we should be looking for:
“is that BhagavAtA behaving like BharathAzhvan,
accepting BhagavAn SriRama and all HIS actions as a Parathantriyam rather than Sheshatvam.
Then, we can consider Him as a BhagavAtA and do kainkaryam, just like Shatrugnan to BharathAzhvan who was doing Parathantriyam to SriRama.
But in practical world, as Bhakta knows, many ignorant bhaktas question SriRamas actions in uttarakanda and keep asking/doubting SriRamas creation about how Anaadhi kaala karma possible?, so how come they can be called as a BhagavAtA like BharathAzhvan. Then where is the question of further BhagavAta kainkaryam.
So inorder to do BhagavAtA kainkaryam to anyone, that person needs to be FULL believer of BhagavAn (MAHAVISHWASAM), like BharathAzhvan’s Parathantriyam rather than Sheshatvam. So we need to question ourselves, do we or anyone QUALIFY to be a BhagavAtA. If not, atleast “Are we REPENTING that we couldnt be like BharatAzhvan, instead of questioning BhagavAn SriRama”.
So, Any doubhting on SriRama, means we are hurting SriRama’s PURE devotee BharathAzhvan, then inturn when BharathAzhvan is sad, then Shatrugnan is worried. So the moolam BhagavAn SriRama needs to be Trusted fully, so the BhagavAtAs are happy, whichh inturn is a BhagavAtA kainkaryam.
Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,
Sarvam SriKrisharpanam Asthu.
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Adiyean,
Shammikkanum,
Bhaktha mentioned that..
” “Parathatriyam” supercedes ‘Sheshatvam, since it is done based on BhagavAns wish. So Swami says Bharathan us better than Lakshmana, hence Bharathan is called as “Bharatha Azhvan”.
Sita Piratti’s decision to go forest is to show us the “Parathatriyam” nature of Athma rather than the Sheshatvam nature of Athma.”
– – – – – –
Adiyean, understood this the other way round,
Sheshatvam supercedes Parathanthriyam as it is done on Bhaghavan’s wish/order…??
Bhaghawan instructed Maatha not to follow Him to forest; however, it is Maatha Seetha who cited the SriDharmam (to be with Pathi) as a reason to follow Him. Thus it falls under Parathanthriam same as Lakshmana.
Adiyean.
Ramanuja Dhasan.
What about KausalyA amma? She lost Dasharatha being with pathi just because she followed SriRam’s instructions?
Dasanudasan
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Adiyean,
Shammikkanum,
Bhaktha mentioned that..
” “Parathatriyam” supercedes ‘Sheshatvam, since it is done based on BhagavAns wish. So Swami says Bharathan us better than Lakshmana, hence Bharathan is called as “Bharatha Azhvan”.
Sita Piratti’s decision to go forest is to show us the “Parathatriyam” nature of Athma rather than the Sheshatvam nature of Athma.”
– – – – – –
Adiyean, in another incident (before Sri Rama Pattabhishegam)
Sheshatvam supercedes Parathanthriyam as it is done on Bhaghavan’s wish/order…??
Bhaghawan instructed Maatha not to follow Him to forest; however, it is Maatha Seetha who cited the SriDharmam (to be with Pathi) as a reason to follow Him. Thus it falls under Parathanthriam same as Lakshmana.
Adiyean.
Ramanuja Dhasan.
What about KausalyA amma? She lost Dasharatha being with pathi just because she followed SriRam’s instructions?
Dasanudasan
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