Creation indicates creator logic unapplicable. What about Shabdham?

Updated on August 6, 2017 in General
8 on August 5, 2017

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

*Prathyaksham (Visibility) = We cannot know God
*Anumanam (Logic) = We cannot know God
*Only Shabdham we can know God. Okay.

Prathyaksham = We have not seen him truly so we cannot know God
Anumanam = There is a problem because it requires at least one prathyaksha pranaamam (one visible proof). One must have seen God to speak about him. So we cannot use anumanam.
Like:
As there is smoke so there should be fire! Smoke & ? should have been seen together at least once.

Adiyen’s question,

How come Shabdham (verbal) not distorted? That is how we know Vedam is not manipulated as there is no written format but only hearing (Shruthi) & remembering (Smruthi) ?

Dasanudasan

 
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0 on August 5, 2017

Kotanakoti Namaskarams of Adiyen Srinivasan Pranesh

Vedas are considered eternal because they are non-contradicting. If it’s man made, there should be contradicting statements.

If we find contradicting statements now, that would be due to our mis-interpretations.

Acharyas were born to clear our mis-interpretations only.

How can Pratyaksham and Anumanam help? You are right.

Let us assume first time a kid sees rose. He sees but cannot infer anything.

He needs someone to point out that and say it is rose. Then, it’s name and attributes get registered in mind. What is the use of Pratyaksham or Anumanam if there is no one to guide him.

Likewise, our scriptures tell us the attributes of God. Before reading them, we cannot identify God even if he is in front of us.

So, without Sabdha Pramana, other Pramanas are useless.

Now coming to Swami’s question,

Please read any Upanishad. No Rishi will author themselves the Upanishad they preached.

Though they are Maha Gnanis, they never said, “I am giving it from my knowledge.”

They always used to say, “This is what our ancestors told us.” That is the speciality of our Vedas and Upanishads.

No author of Vedas can be found and the author can be Lord Himself.

The problem in modern age is, “Many people start giving things from their own understanding, instead of quoting from scriptures.” This leads to confusions.

To get a clarity, we have to go by Vedanta and it’s Siddhantas.

Further, whenever there are confusions, a Veda Vyasar is born to organize and classify them properly.

Let me copy paste what I shared with one of my friend’s already. Please correct me, if you find mistakes.

*List of Veda Vyasar as per Vishnu Puranam*

Veda Vyasar is not a single person as many people think. It’s a Peetam and Vyasar is like a posting.

Our recent Veda Vyasar is named as Krishna Dwaipayanar. He is also believed to be Badarayanar who gave us Vedanta Sutras or Brahma Sutras. Krishna Dwaipayanar classified already existing Vedas into four namely Rig, Yajur, Sama and Atharvana. Poor people who are not aware of these try to find the origin of Vedas and say that they date back to 5000 years based on the period of Mahabharata war.

Vedas in fact are originless and are believed to exist since time immemorial. They are eternal and given by God Himself to us.

Let us see what Vishnu Puranam says about list of Vyasar. Maitreya Maharishi enquired Parasara Maharishi about this.

Parasara Maharishi said, “Oh Maitreya! Vedas are one but has many branches. It is very difficult to explain Vedas which is infinite. Hence, I will brief it.

Lord Sriman Narayana takes birth as Veda Vyasar in every Dwapara Yuga, when energy, intellect and learning capability of people start diminishing. For the benefit of such people, He classifies the single Veda into various branches.

Whoever may be the person, the God gets in to perform this, people with such divine bodies are called Veda Vyasar. Let me give a list of Veda Vyasar in this Manvantra.

Our current Manvantra is Vaivaswatha. In this Manvantra, Vedas has been categorized 28 times. Hence this world has seen 28 Vyasar so far.

In the 1st Dwapara yuga, Brahma Himself was Vyasar. In 2nd Dwapara yuga, Vaivaswatha Manu was Vyasar.

3rd Sukran, 4th Brahaspathi, 5th Suryan, 6th Yaman, 7th Devendran, 8th Vasishtar, 9th Saraswathar, 10th Trithama, 11th Trivrisha, 12th Baradwaja Munivar, 13th Antharishar, 14th Dharmi, 15th Triyaruni, 16th Thanajayan, 17th Krithanjayan, 18th Sanjayan, 19th Baradwajar, 20th Gowthamar, 21st Utthamar also known as Hariyathma, 22nd Vajeesrawan also known as Venan, 23rd Somasushmayanan also known as Trinabindhu, 24th Valmiki also named as Bargavarikshar.

25th Vyasar was my father Sakthi Munivar (Parasara Munivar’s father), 26th Vyasar myself (Parasara Munivar), 27th Jadhukarnar and Vyasar of 28th Dwapara yuga is my son Krishna Dwaipayanan.

In the future, that is 29th Dwapara yuga, Ashwathaman, son of Dronacharyar will be the Vyasar.”

So, above is the list of Vyasar. Just took it from a reference book from my library. Please correct me if it’s wrong.

So, let us accept whatever we have now. By God’s grace, everything will come to light one-day and we will get clarity by grace of Acharyan.

Let us leave worrying about manipulated Vedas to Veda Vyasas assigned by God.

We don’t attain Moksha on our own efforts by learning all. It’s the mercy shown by God on us for the sincere attempts we make. Hence, let us keep attempting to the best of our knowledge and learn them by grace of our Acharyar.

???
Sarvam Shri Krishnaarpanamastu!

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0 on August 5, 2017

Well said Pranesh Swamy

“What is the use of Pratyaksham or Anumanam if there is no one to guide him.”

This creates the need for Acharyan.

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2 on August 5, 2017

Actual Vedas are “aporusheyam” not created by a being. So it’s not even Perumal who created.

“No author of Vedas can be found and the author can be Lord Himself.” – This requires correction.

Time and again we see Vedas cannot measure god.

on August 5, 2017

Danyosmi Swamy,

I will definitely take your statement, “Perumal is also not author of Vedas”, into consideration for further analysis and will definitely accept if it is approved by Sabdha Pramana and Acharyas.

“Yepporul yaar yaar vaikketpinum apporul meiporul kanbhadharivu” – Thirukkural.

Adiyen Srinivasan Pranesh

Sarvam Shri Krishnaarpanamastu!

Loka Samastha Sukino Bhavantu!

on August 6, 2017

Sri:

Adiyen did not invent the term “ApourushEyam”. This can be referenced from Sri Hayagriva Stotram of Swami Desikan and Sri Velukkudi Swamy has given beautiful explanations to it.

अपौषये र
ै्
अिप वापः

अािप तेभितमपाराम ू ।्
वह ु ंमग्धु इित यव

काण्यतो नाथ कटाक्षणीयः॥ ६॥
apauruṣeyair api vākprapañcaiḥ
adyāpi te bhūti madṛṣṭa pārām |
stuvannahaṁ mugdha iti tvayaiva
kāruṇyato nātha kaṭākṣaṇīyaḥ || 6 ||
MEANING:
Oh Lord HayagrIvA! Veda-VedAnthams are not composed by anyone. They are apourushEyam
(authorless and vast). They struggle even today in their efforts to describe adequately Your
SvarUpam, ThirumEni and Your anantha kalyAna guNams; they cannot see the limits (shores)
to the ocean of Your glories.

https://www.google.co.in/url?q=https://www.sadagopan.org/index.php/component/djcatalog2/%3Fformat%3Draw%26task%3Ddownload%26fid%3D21&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwiyivunpcHVAhWIN48KHUOoBCYQFggdMAU&usg=AFQjCNH8-T-bHm79yCPBVysZP-V2g2h5_A

Dasanudasan

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2 on August 5, 2017

“Just took it from a reference book from my library. Please correct me if it’s wrong” –
Adiyen taking notes of this answer for future share.

Ok adiyen, please clarify ashwathama 29th vyAsar. Is it in next dwapara yugam?

By the way excellent answer Swami ?

on August 5, 2017

Kotana Koti Namaskarams

Yes as per reference book Adiyen have. Because, in first three yugas, people believe in Vedas. Debates on Vedas start only in Kaliyuga due to diminishing intelligence of people day by day. So, it is essentially required in Dwapara Yuga for forthcoming Kaliyuga.

Gita was also given for Kaliyuga by Gitacharyan, at the end of Dwapara Yuga.

Acharyas are born in Kaliyuga to transfer right Vedic knowledge to all, following Veda Vyasar of each Chaturyuga.

Unfortunate thing is, Kali is so strong that despite all these, people still debate on Vedas.

Sarvam Shri Krishnaarpanamastu!

on August 6, 2017

Actually 1 chathur yuga has 4 yugas including dwapara, & Kali. This is a cycle. Is there any reference of Mahabharatham happening again?

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