En pani doubts

Updated on November 26, 2017 in General
6 on November 24, 2017

let me pay my respect at the feet of swami velukkudi krishnan

Based on en pani 845 and 843 what meaning should i apprehend from the following verses as shastra doesnt mean anything contradictory

srimad bhagavatam 7.11.35

yasya yat lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ

puṁso varṇābhivyañjakam

yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta

tat tenaiva vinirdiśet

 

mahabharat vana parva adhyaya 177 (ajagara episode)

सर्प उवाच||

ब्राह्मणः को भवेद्राजन्वेद्यं किं च युधिष्ठिर |

ब्रवीह्यतिमतिं त्वां हि वाक्यैरनुमिमीमहे ||१५||

 

युधिष्ठिर उवाच||

सत्यं दानं क्षमा शीलमानृशंस्यं दमो घृणा |

दृश्यन्ते यत्र नागेन्द्र स ब्राह्मण इति स्मृतः ||१६||

वेद्यं सर्प परं ब्रह्म निर्दुःखमसुखं च यत् |

यत्र गत्वा न शोचन्ति भवतः किं विवक्षितम् ||१७||

 

सर्प उवाच||

चातुर्वर्ण्यं प्रमाणं च सत्यं च ब्रह्म चैव ह |

शूद्रेष्वपि च सत्यं च दानमक्रोध एव च ||१८||

आनृशंस्यमहिंसा च घृणा चैव युधिष्ठिर ||१८||

वेद्यं यच्चात्थ निर्दुःखमसुखं च नराधिप |

ताभ्यां हीनं पदं चान्यन्न तदस्तीति लक्षये ||१९||

 

युधिष्ठिर उवाच||

शूद्रे चैतद्भवेल्लक्ष्यं द्विजे तच्च न विद्यते |

न वै शूद्रो भवेच्छूद्रो ब्राह्मणो न च ब्राह्मणः ||२०||

यत्रैतल्लक्ष्यते सर्प वृत्तं स ब्राह्मणः स्मृतः |

यत्रैतन्न भवेत्सर्प तं शूद्रमिति निर्दिशेत् ||२१||

यत्पुनर्भवता प्रोक्तं न वेद्यं विद्यतेति ह |

ताभ्यां हीनमतीत्यात्र पदं नास्तीति चेदपि ||२२||

एवमेतन्मतं सर्प ताभ्यां हीनं न विद्यते |

यथा शीतोष्णयोर्मध्ये भवेन्नोष्णं न शीतता ||२३||

एवं वै सुखदुःखाभ्यां हीनमस्ति पदं क्वचित् |

एषा मम मतिः सर्प यथा वा मन्यते भवान् ||२४||

 

सर्प उवाच||

यदि ते वृत्ततो राजन्ब्राह्मणः प्रसमीक्षितः |

व्यर्था जातिस्तदायुष्मन्कृतिर्यावन्न दृश्यते ||२५||

 

युधिष्ठिर उवाच||

जातिरत्र महासर्प मनुष्यत्वे महामते |

सङ्करात्सर्ववर्णानां दुष्परीक्ष्येति मे मतिः ||२६||

सर्वे सर्वास्वपत्यानि जनयन्ति यदा नराः |

वाङ्मैथुनमथो जन्म मरणं च समं नृणाम् ||२७||

इदमार्षं प्रमाणं च ये यजामह इत्यपि |

तस्माच्छीलं प्रधानेष्टं विदुर्ये तत्त्वदर्शिनः ||२८||

प्राङ्नाभिवर्धनात्पुंसो जातकर्म विधीयते |

तत्रास्य माता सावित्री पिता त्वाचार्य उच्यते ||२९||

वृत्त्या शूद्रसमो ह्येष यावद्वेदे न जायते |

अस्मिन्नेवं मतिद्वैधे मनुः स्वायम्भुवोऽब्रवीत् ||३०||

कृतकृत्याः पुनर्वर्णा यदि वृत्तं न विद्यते |

सङ्करस्तत्र नागेन्द्र बलवान्प्रसमीक्षितः ||३१||

यत्रेदानीं महासर्प संस्कृतं वृत्तमिष्यते |

तं ब्राह्मणमहं पूर्वमुक्तवान्भुजगोत्तम ||३२||

 

सर्प उवाच||

श्रुतं विदितवेद्यस्य तव वाक्यं युधिष्ठिर |

भक्षयेयमहं कस्माद्भ्रातरं ते वृकोदरम् ||३३||

should we consider the above statements objectively or subjectively 

should it be considered interpolated or corrupted introduction in the puranas during buddhist era 

on what basis the above statements by vaishampayana must be considered??

if the above statements are true then why was mathanga muni been rejected for such position by indra inspite he underwent great thapas 

 

adiyen sarva abacharathayum kshamika prarthikirom

 

 
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0 on November 24, 2017

Kindly translate,these verses,into english and state what contradictions you see, then we can help you to see if they are really contradictions.

Many of us like me may not be experts in hindi fonts or in snskrit meanings.

Regards

 

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1 on November 24, 2017

Srimad bhagavatam 7.11.35
If one shows the symptoms of being a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya or śūdra, as described above, even if he has appeared in a different class, he should be accepted according to those symptoms of classification.

mahabharat vana parva adhyaya 177 (ajagara episode)

Once, during the teertha yatra of the Pandavas during their exile, Bhimasena is attacked by this very snake and is held. The snake has a boon that it will succeed in holding anyone it desires. Bhimasena decides to honor this boon and remains in the clutches of the snake. He refuses to answer any question that the snake wants to pose as it is against Dharma to trade knowledge to free oneself.

Yudhisthira, meanwhile, spots some omens and approaches the place in search of Bhimasena. Seeing the snake holding Bhimasena and learning the entire story, Yudhisthira agrees to answer the snake’s question in order to free his brother.

The snake poses only one question to Dharma – “Who is a Brahmana?”

Yudhisthira gives a very beautiful answer which is very relevant especially in today’s society. I am posting some excerpts of his answer from the freely available english translation of the Bharata.

‘O foremost of serpents, he, it is asserted by the wise, in whom are seen truth, charity, forgiveness, good conduct, benevolence, observance of the rites of his order and mercy is a Brahmana’

Those characteristics that are present in a Sudra, do not exist in a Brahmana; nor do those that are in a Brahmana exist in a Sudra. And a Sudra is not a Sudra by birth alone–nor a Brahmana is Brahmana by birth alone. He, it is said by the wise, in whom are seen those virtues is a Brahmana. And people term him a Sudra in whom those qualities do not exist, even though he be a Brahmana by birth. And again, as for thy assertion that the object to be known (as asserted by me) doth not exist, because nothing exists that is devoid of both (happiness and misery), such indeed is the opinion, O serpent, that nothing exists that is without (them) both. But as in cold, heat doth not exist, nor in heat, cold, so there cannot exist an object in which both (happiness and misery) cannot exist?”

“In human society, O mighty and highly intelligent

serpent, it is difficult to ascertain one’s caste, because of promiscuous intercourse among the four orders. This is my opinion. Men belonging to all orders (promiscuously) beget offspring upon women of all the orders. And of men, speech, sexual intercourse, birth and death are common. And to this the Rishis have borne testimony by using as the beginning of a sacrifice such expressions as–of what caste so ever we may be, we celebrate the sacrifice. Therefore, those that are wise have asserted that character is the chief essential requisite. The natal ceremony of a person is performed before division of the umbilical cord. His mother then acts as its Savitri and his father officiates as priest. He is considered as a Sudra as long as he is not initiated in the Vedas. Doubts having arisen on this point, O prince; of serpents, Swayambhuba Manu has declared, that the mixed castes are to be regarded as better than the (other) classes, if having gone through the ceremonies of purification, the latter do not conform to the rules of good conduct, O excellent snake! Whosoever now conforms to the rules of pure and virtuous conduct, him have I, ere now, designated as a Brahmana.’

These statements may go in accordance with the examples of satyakama jabali,etc

But it is against with the life incidence of madanga muni

What conclusion should we come to in

on November 25, 2017

Dear Bhakta

Namaskaram. Thanks for the english version

Swami explained in the enpani audio, that he is not stating which is the ideally right standard..qualities or By birth? But he was stating for practical purposes what can be used qualities or birth?

So ideally as per sastras, yes one is brahmana not by birth but by qualities.

But in todays context of kali yuga it is very rare to find any one with all brahmana qualities , including brahmins by birth. In such context atleast those who are born in brahminical family have more probability and more conducive environment to function as a brhamana.

But Swami also added that , brahmins by birth should also strive to cultivate brahminical qualities.

Alternatively if we apply the concept of classifying entirely by qualities now in present day society..the problems will be there will be hardly few brahmanas which we can count manually, 2)  do society as such know sastras and what is expected of brhamanas in terms of quality? 3) people may get cheated by external qualities of show of havans, pooja etc.. It is very hard to handle the chaos as there will be lot of false claims

But gong purely by birth also has problems, but lesser. So based on experience and wisdom Swami is prescribing the best among the two,

Also i am not familiar with the incident of madanga muni..can you please state it briefly?

Nandri

Adiyen

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0 on November 26, 2017

Srimatae Ramanujaya Namaha,

Dear Bhaktas,

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami in the past has said “Who is a BrahmaNa” in Enpani #169 based on PoorvAcharyars teachings.

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami ThiruvAdigalaey Sharanam,
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,
Sarvam SriKrishna Kudumbham.

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0 on November 26, 2017

Srimatae Ramanujaya Namaha,

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami in the past has said “Who is a BrahmaNa” in Enpani #169 based on PoorvAcharyars teachings.

Here is the link.

En PaNi 151-200

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami ThiruvAdigalaey Sharanam,
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,
Sarvam SriKrishna Kudumbham.

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0 on November 26, 2017

169 awesome

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