Generally tavvam is of three types: chit, achit and eshwaran. All living kinds can be said as chetanas but will non living entities that we see all around us has atma inside it?
Does acheta vastu completely devoid of presence of atma inside it? If not, say a atmam is present within all stone, paper, dust, sand etc etc how that atma got inside stone/sand/whatsoever form and how will it get liberated(ie dissociate) that form?
Please do answer this swamy.
Adiyen dasan!
Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,
Namaskaram Sheshadri Bhakta,
Adiyen believe, this topic “Athma inside Achit” was discussed in detail in another thread with reference to Velukkudi Swami’s upanyasams.
In Crux, with Acharya ThiruvAdi Bhalam and Velukkudi Sri Krishnan Swami’s Aasirvadham, a much simpler version instead of picking outside Achit examples like stone, paper, etc… let’s consider our Present Human Body itself, It is Achetanam (Achit/Insentient/Jada Porul).
There is a “Primary Athma” placed in the Hrudhaya Kamalam (Heart) of its own respective Human Body like devareer or Adiyen or snyone either to Relinquish the Karma’s (Punya/Paapa) or to do Sharanagathy on Sriman NarayanA’s Lotus Feet to get out of the Punya-Paapa karma cycle.
But this Human Body itself has other cluster of countless Athma’s either sticking to our outside body or inside blood or in nerves or in flesh or in stool etc…who comes inside body through food/drinks or when we are in contact with anything. However those Athmas though Chetanan (Chit/Sentient/Chaitanyam Udayadhu), they are Equivalent to Achetanam since they don’t have a Primary Body to Relinquish their Karma’s, Or use their Body as a Tool to Serve Sriman NarayanA. At the same time, even if an Athma gets a Primary Human Body, but doesn’t serve the purpose of it’s birth, then that Athma is also Equivalent to Achetanam, since it is wasting it precious Body/life by not doing Sharanagathy on Sriman NarayanA’s Lotus Feet, and if that human body is gone at anytime, then no one except BhagavAn knows when that Athma will get another Human Body. Till that time that Athma will be wandering in this Samsaram without a body or sticking to other Achetanams/Achit like paper, stone, sand or on other human bodies etc…..
However some Athma’s get lucky to reach Moksham without even getting any Human Body with BhagavAn’s Krupai, like there will be few million Athma’s sitting in our tongue and when Acharyas/Mahans/BhagavAta’s keep murmuring the Dvaya Mantra and Guru Paramparai, they straight reach Moksham. That is another method BhagavAn has devised, by making one or more SriVaishnavas, when they do ThiruAradhanai by chanting hymns daily, then those other Athma’s sticking to the Primary Athma in a SriVaishnava Body gets Moksham. So every day countless Athma’s reach Moksham without even getting a Human Body.
Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan
The path each soul takes before acquiring a body to burn away karma is one of the first lessons described in SriBhasyam. It emphsises the rarity of getting a human form of body and the importance of seeking saranagathi at acharya’s thiruvadi and practicing a sharanagathi-ed life.
ElayaAlwar swamy’s explanation is a gist of this section.
adiyen dasan.
Please listen to the following segments from the link below
0.23 to 2.12 and 3.14 to 4.06
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NafiJTILbpk&list=PLhrdHlkOIj-VkgusrJIu8BGAMLfX7uGeN&index=10
adiyen dasan.
ElayaAlwar swamy,
Namaskaram.
some Athma’s get lucky to reach Moksham without even getting any Human Body
It is a very interesting point and can I say revolutionary one to read. I hope this will have some scriptural reference, without which you would not have posted. It indicates atmas can attain mukti, without getting human body and without following any system (as we understood normally) as stated in scripture to attain mukti. Hence, one need not be a Vaishnavite / taken samasrayanam to attain mukti. Satsang / physical attachment to the body of a primary atma of SriVaishnava Body can also give mukti. This indicates Bhagawan is very kind and has devised several routes to attain mukti. Can some human / animals physically present at the time of chanting hymns by Vaishnavite also attain mukti?.
adiyen
The well known examples are: 1. even the pot got to go to Vaikuntha because it was associated with the potter. 2. even Putana who came to kill Krishna got the status of His mother just because she came to perform a motherly act. 3. The rakshasas got liberation just because they were associated with Vibheesana..
I am eager to hear more examples
adiyen dasan.
Namaskaram Swamins
To add one more example in the context of mukti mentioned above. Adiyen heard in one of krishnan swami’s upanayasam of a dog having Bhagwata prasadam and getting sambandam thereof, getting moksham in Azhwar thirunagari.
Adiyen
Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha,
Seshadri swamy, here is the link of the previous thread on the same topic.
https://www.kinchit.org/dharma-sandeha/thread/aatma-inside-acit/
Also on the above discussions of direct liberation from acit, it is little difficult to comprehend, as it is said the aatma should want to attain liberation/ reach vaikunta, this is a prerequisite, so not sure sure how with out the free will of the aatma, he will be taken to Vaikunta is not clear,
Also during the maha pralaya, aatmas (baddha aatmas) were almost in acit state in Lord’s body, but take birth again to relinquish karma and to exercise proper free will to return back to kingdom of God.
So i presume direct liberation from acit body may be a rare or exception but not normal, else the argument that “human form of life is valuable” does not hold good.
Adiyen
Thirukachidaasanudasan
Srimate Raamanujaye Namaha!
Nowadays, Swami’s Mahabharatam and Harivamsam audios are also looking like live audios (though they are recorded old audios).. because many of the discussions we have here in this forum and also day to day festivals get referred to in these audios very timely.. Very excited to hear such audios.
For example in Harivamasam audio 29 posted on 23rd January , Swami clarifies one point we have been discussing in this thread.. In this audio swami says Ganges river is so pious that by dipping in her with faith one will get liberated.. then swami takes poorvapaksha stance of what about the fishes those live in Ganges.. then swami replied it is not by just contact.. but by conscious contact.. knowing that Ganges is the holy water stemming from Lord’s lotus feet.. that knowledge is what enables one to get liberated not just accidental contact..
I hope it clarifies the discussion we were having above. But there can be exceptions.. that Lord can exercise in special circumstances as in the examples pointed above.
Also interestingly in this audio which we received on ekadasi (24 th Jan), swami explains about fasting from dashami and how to fast on ekadasi etc.. So.these audios are ever alive audios..
Dhanyosmi to Sri Velukkudi Swami.
Adiyen
Thirukachidaasanudasan
