Gender of JIvathma

Updated on June 21, 2021 in General
12 on June 18, 2021

Azhawar emberumanar jeeyar thiruvadigale sharanam!

Swami. Will Male take only male births and female take only female births in their next janmas? In our itihasa/purana is there any character/person who is male at this birth but was female in their previous or female at this birth but was male in previos birth? Adiyen could see only that male characters of this birth had only male birth in their previos births and female characters had only female birth in this previos births. Example hiranya kashipu, ravana kumbakarna, sisupalan, devaki, vasudevar, yasoda, nandagopar, bheeshmar, draupadi and many other kings ect. Any charecter in itihasa puranas had opposite gender in previos births? adiyen requesting devareer to clarify swami.

Daasan

 

 
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Will Male take only male births and female take only female births in their next janmas? From Srivatsan

The rshis who had deep bhakthi for Lord Rama are said to have appeared as the gopis in Krishna leela.

மேலும் ஆத்மா “ஆண் அல்ல, பெண் அல்ல அலியும் அல்ல” என்பதே ஆழ்வார்கள் கூற்று.

 

Srivatsa chinha misrEbhyO nama ukthim matheemahE
 Yatustraya trayee kantE yAnti mangala sUtrathAmFrom ஸ்ரீ உடையவர்

கூர்த்தாழ்வார் முற்பிறவியில் பெண்னாக இருந்தார் என்றா குறிப்புணர்த்த முயல்கிறீர்? அடியேன் அவ்வாறு கேள்விபட்டதில்லை.

From

சுவாரஸ்யமான சிந்தனை. ஆனால் ஆச்சார்யர்களிடம் இருந்து அவ்வாறு கேள்வி படாத வரையில், நம் யூகங்களை பொது வெளியில் உரைக்காமல் இருப்பது நன்று. தாங்கள் பல பதிவுகளில் பூர்வாச்சார்யர்களின் உபதேசங்களை ஆதாரங்களாக கொண்டு சரியாக எடுத்துகாட்டுகிறீர். அதனால் எவறேனும் தங்கள் யூகத்தையும் அவ்வாறே ஏற்று கொள்ள கூடும்; இப்படி பட்ட யூகங்கள் விரைவில் புரளி போல பரவவும் வாய்ப்புண்டு. அடியேன் பணிவான கருத்து; for your kind consideration.

adiyen dasan.

 

Yes, ‘Kuuraththaazhvaan‘ is correct as per his explicitly expressed desire. But somehow  I find it akward to address him like that. I hope he will kindly bear with my address as ‘Kuuraththaazhvaar’..

 

I have heard that the mention of ‘Srivatsa’ in his தனியன் refers to the gothram he appeared.

It will be nice if our swamy explains this தனியன் word by word. May be he has already done so in some upanyasam.

on June 19, 2021

No. It dose not refers to gothram. “Srivatsa chinha” denotes srivatsa mark. Name of swami koorathazwan is “srivatsa chinhar”. Swami kooratazhwan belong to hAritha gothram. Kindly refer guruparampara prabhavam and vyakhyanam of “mozhiyai kadakkum” pAsuram of iramAnusa nUTrandAdi.

on June 19, 2021

@கம்பதாசன் ஸ்வாமி. Rushigal example is fine and convincable. Nammazhwar pasuram “ஆணல்லன் பெண்ணல்லன்…..” Is referring to bhagavan… Not jivathmas.
Dasan

No. It dose not refers to gothram. “Srivatsa chinha” denotes srivatsa mark. Name of swami koorathazwan is “srivatsa chinhar”. Swami kooratazhwan belong to hAritha gothram. Kindly refer guruparampara prabhavam and vyakhyanam of “mozhiyai kadakkum” pAsuram of iramAnusa nUTrandAdi.From Srivatsan

Srivatsan swamy, thank you for the explanation of “Srivatsa-chinha”. Until now I have been believing Swamy Mudhaliandan appeared in Haritha gothram and Swamy Kuuraththaazhawa_ in Srivatsa gothram.

Let me check on that; Thank you for poining out.

adiyen dasan.

 

 

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I am fully confident you will not indulge in intentional misleading. I was trying to suggest to avoid inadvertent misleading. “தாயாரே கூர்த்தாழ்வார் ஆக வந்திருப்பாளோ என்ற நோக்கில்”  – I had understood this sentence to mean that it was your guess, not something you had heard from superior. If you had actually heard from some superior, then it is not a guess; on the otherhand, if you had not heard from a superior it is still a guess whether or not it turns out to be correct later on.

I have been strongly advised by my guru not to speak anything based on my independent guesses / interpretations. If at all I have to do so, then I must clearly mention that this is just my understanding and not a statement I have heard from authority. I stick to this principle; our Velukkudi swamy has also emphasised this principle in one of the enpanis.

Regarding my memory of Kuuraththazhwaa_ ‘s gothram, I have distinctly heard it from a superior. If that information is not correct, then it is likely a slip of tongue or slip of memory on my superior’s part; I’ll will humbly submit to him and seek clarification, and stand corrected. Until then I shall remain ambivalent.

 

If you feel offented at my suggestion not to express our guess, I am sorry. I was merely sharing the instruction I myself have received, in the interest of preserving the authenticity of the traditional knowledge received through acharyas’ vyaakyaanams I shall avoid making any such suggestions to you hereafter. If at all you happen to step astray a bit, I am sure Iswara will use some other துரும்பு to correct your course and rakshi-fy you.

I am not here for a one-up-manship game; engaging in such a contest will derail me from the path of vaishnavism. So please don’t feel challenged by me. I am keen not to cause you any sense of insecurity.

In your service,

adiyen dasan.

 

I am sure Iswara will use some other துரும்பு From கம்பன்தாசன்

‘துரும்பு’ என்பதற்கு பதிலாக ‘கரும்பு’ என்று எழுதியிருந்தால் மிக சரியாக இருந்திருகும் என்று ஸ்வாமியின் என்பணி 2143 பின் உணர்கிறேன்!  கணிவான இனிமையான சொற்கலால் நம்மை திருத்தி பணிகொள்கிறார்!

அடியேன் தாசன்.

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Srivatsan swamy, I am yet to check the audio reference mentioned by you; but wikipedia page on Kuuraththaazhwaa_ validates your statement. Thank you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koorathazhwan

adiyen dasan.

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ஆம் ஸ்வாமி! சரியாக சொன்னீர். வல்லவனுக்கு வல்லவன் என்றும் உண்டு; அந்த பதவி நிரந்தரம் அற்றது. நம்மை oneupmanship சுழலில் எழுத்து சென்று வாழ்க்கையின் பிறவிப்பயன் எய்துவதிலிருந்து தடம் மாற செய்துவிடும். ஒரு வைணவனாக வாழவிடாது.

அதனால்தான்  என்றும் நிரந்தரமான, அடியேனின் தகுதிக்கு மிக சரியாக, துல்யமாக ஏற்ற அடியார்க்கு அடியார்க்கு அடியார்க்கு அடியார்க்குஅடியார்க்கு அடியார்க்கு அடியார்க்கு அடியானான பதவிவில் மட்டுமே அடியேனுக்கு ஆசை. அடியேனின் ஆச்சார்யரின் அனுகிரஹத்தால் என்றும் நிலைத்திருப்பேன்.

தாசன்.

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0 on June 21, 2021

Srimate Ramanujaya Namaha
Please accept my sastang pranams

I have heard from elders that –

Before Mukti –
Atma has no gender but Jiva sometimes gets born as male, sometimes as female or sometimes as third gender due to Karma. There is no fixed gender, it purely depends on Karma.

After Mukti –
There is permanent gender. Everyone either gets male form or female.

Chapter 2: Contents of the Gita Summarized
TEXT 24
acchedyo ‘yam adahyo ‘yam
akledyo ‘sosya eva ca
nityah sarva-gatah sthanur
acalo ‘yam sanatanah
SYNONYMS
acchedyah—unbreakable; ayam—this soul; adahyah—cannot be burned; ayam—this soul; akledyah—insoluble; asosyah—cannot be dried; eva—certainly; ca—and; nityah—everlasting; sarva-gatah—all-pervading; sthanuh—unchangeable; acalah—immovable; ayam—this soul; sanatanah—eternally the same.
TRANSLATION
This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, all-pervading, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same.

Note –

– Atma has no gender. Before or After Mukti.
– Although Atma might get male gender in Vaikunta but he is NOT Purusha but only Sriman Narayana is Purusha

I beg apologies for any Apacharas done by me unknowingly knowingly to you and any, anytime etc

Om Namo Narayana

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0 on June 21, 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVLxCaVsbC0 

EnPaNi 1294 Interesting Point About Pitrukkal

 

In this audio, swamy explains that one person who is male in one janma can be a female in another janma. Though, in does not discuss about any character in itihasa puranas which had opposite gender in different births.

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