Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Swamy,
Some people are known better by their alternative names. Some may have used nameology or numerology. Some just like that for cinema purpose.
In Spiritual world also we see alternative name. Some associated by their geography or even in sampradhayam we have alternative names
How good name is to our identity?
Can we change name given by our parents?
Dasanudasan
Jai Srimanarayana
In the material world – the name has no correlation with identity
In the spiritual world, Vaikuntha – the name has a total correlation with identity
You can change your name given by your parents. Although not recommended because it’s simply an external change and involves a lot of legal works
Jai Srimanarayana
Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Adiyen not concerned about legality whether it is possible to change name or not Swamy.
What is the impact of such alternative names?
Does it really represent us?
Is it ethical to override parent’s given name?
Is it okay to accept such names?
My childhood friends call me Vicky whether I like it or not but actual name is TriVikraman.
Adiyen have other 2 names
Lakshmi Narasimhan
VenktanAthan
Which ia not used to refer me at all.
Typical example is Sri VenkatanAthan
We popular refer swamy as Desikan
Does Swamy Desikan represent Swamy VenkatanAthan?
Does Swamy ElayAlwAr represent udayavar or Sri BhAshyakArar?
NadAthur AmmAl represent actual BhAgavathA?
How does our prayer reach those great souls if we attribute a name and refer them?
Can I worship Sriman NArAyaNa by calling him Shiva or Swayambu, Shambhu, Rudra? These names come in SahasranAmam
We Sri Vaishnavites immediately find a distinction.
In SahasranAmam phala sthuthi we hear
“Eeshwara UvAcha”
Eeshwara here represent mA pArvathi’s husband
While actually sarvEshwaran is Sriman NArAyaNa
Even in Sankalpam for “ParamEshwara Preethyartham” we classify it for Shaivites
How come Parameshwaran does not directly point to Sriman NArAyaNa why such confusion?
Is our name an actual identity in first place?
What is the significance of a BhAgavathA’s name?
Is there any difference in actual & representational (kAraNa peyar) name?
Can we worship brahmam as Brahmam?
If no why?
Dasanudasan
Jai Srimanarayana
Adiyen not concerned about legality whether it is possible to change name or not Swamy.
Yes, you can change. No constraints. I know many ppl who really want to change their name because it doesn’t represent their Vaishnava mood
What is the impact of such alternative names?
For normal ppl – Jyotish affect. For Vaishnavas, no such thing affects. It will be better to be called by a name which you like to call or better is to ask any senior Acharya for name suggestions
Does it really represent us?
Yes, but with the addition of Dasa or Dasi mood
For example – if your name is Lakshmi-Narayana you become Lakshmi-Narayana Dasa
Is it ethical to override parent’s given name?
If one has a genuine reason, it’s fine. Anytime you can take their views. If they are against, just drop it or convince them. If parents are very sad, just leave it.
Is it okay to accept such names?
My childhood friends call me Vicky whether I like it or not but actual name is TriVikraman.
Adiyen have other 2 names
Lakshmi Narasimhan
VenktanAthan
Which ia not used to refer me at all.
I understand that. You got great names, you can use them
Typical example is Sri VenkatanAthan
We popular refer swamy as Desikan
Does Swamy Desikan represent Swamy VenkatanAthan?
Does Swamy ElayAlwAr represent udayavar or Sri BhAshyakArar?
NadAthur AmmAl represent actual BhAgavathA?
Yes, Alwars represent Sriman Lakshmi-Narayana as their servants
It’s not necessarily that Swamy Desikan represent only Sri VenkatanAthan, its more flexible
How does our prayer reach those great souls if we attribute a name and refer them?
It’s always recommended to attribute such name to them which our senior Acharya’s attribute. They are Nithya Muktas. So they hear us anyways
Can I worship Sriman NArAyaNa by calling him Shiva or Swayambu, Shambhu, Rudra? These names come in SahasranAmam
We Sri Vaishnavites immediately find a distinction.
In SahasranAmam phala sthuthi we hear
“Eeshwara UvAcha”
Eeshwara here represent mA pArvathi’s husband
While actually sarvEshwaran is Sriman NArAyaNa
Even in Sankalpam for “ParamEshwara Preethyartham” we classify it for Shaivites
How come Parameshwaran does not directly point to Sriman NArAyaNa why such confusion?
It’s a linguistic evolutionism. Before everything was attributed to Sriman Narayana. With time, Shaivism and other new sects created. They sharted claiming some names and it becomes a problem. So certain names we abstain from using because it creates confusion.
Always follow sampradaya. Call Perumal what our acharyas have been calling since tens of thousands of years.
Is our name an actual identity in first place?
Not necessarily. If it has been given a Vaishnava name, then yes.
What is the significance of a BhAgavathA’s name?
Is there any difference in actual & representational (kAraNa peyar) name?
BhAgavathA’s name is significant because they are great Vaishnavas. actual & representational names mean the same if they convey the same meanings
Can we worship brahmam as Brahmam?
If no why?
No. Our sampradaya is based on Saranagati. For it, brahmam is not suitable.
Akinchan dasanudasa
Srimate Ramnujaye Namaha,
Akinchan Das Swamy, Appreciate the patience with with each of the question has been answered above
I have one clarification though “”With time, Shaivism and other new sects created. ” Is there any reference for this statement about creation of shaivism..? (Buddhism , janisim all have a date associated )
Adiyen
Jai Srimanarayana
For it, one needs to study – Indology, comparative religion and evolution of religions history
All the religions we know today including sub-sects which affiliates to Hindu tradition like Shaiva, Shakta etc are created much later than post-Vedic era. The Vedic era was in Dwapar Yuga.
Since Swamy, you asked about it, you can read this
Shaivism history – created around 3-4th century AD
In the Vedic era – No isms, only Vaishnava Dharma exists. In all 3 Yuga, no isms exist.
Quote –
According to Scholar Gavin Flood, “the formation of Śaiva traditions as we understand them begins to occur during the period from… 100 AD.”
Flood, Gavin (1996). An introduction to Hinduism, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
Shaivism seed ideas started in the 2nd century AD got solidified in the 4-5th century AD and it got prominent after 7th century AD. It got philosophy development at around 10-11th century AD due to the rise of new Puranas.
Quote –
“The oldest shaiva manuscript of surviving texts was likely composed, estimates Klaus Klostermaier, around 10th- to 11th-century AD. Some chapters of currently surviving Shiva Purana manuscripts were likely composed after the 14th-century.”
Dr Klaus Klostermaier, “Ancient Indian History and Culture”, PhD
I can quote 100’s of reference. I will cut it short here. I feel it’s out of scope
Jai Srimanarayana
Srimate Ramnujaye Namaha!
Das swamy, before I write a detailed reply, I would like to explain the context of this discussion. Vikram swamy asked “why are some words like Iswhara intepretted differently in different places” and devareer explained that ” some new religions which cropped up later grabbed these words”
I was a bit taken aback by this statement, as even though as vaishnavas we follow Vaishnav(ism) we should not look down or spread unknown information about other vedic paths(called vaideeha paths) – defined as theistic religion which believe in other worlds beyond earth and also believe in vedas. As kali yuga progresses there is going to be rise in aethism and all theistic religions though they may follow their own systems must unite and work against the aethistic forces.. So for that we should be respectful towards other theistic paths- which are described in vedas.. In this context please see the following proof and arguments.
Das Swamy, I am surprised that you have quoted references from modern history. Velukkudi swami have posted some enpani audios showing how modern history esp relating to religion have quite a lot of mistakes – either intentionally or due to the false methods of acquiring information.
Even if we rely on modern historians here are some for your examination:
“The origins of Shaivism are unclear and a matter of debate among scholars. Some trace the origins to the Indus Valley civilization, which reached its peak around 2500–2000 BCE” Wikipedia
“The Shvetashvatara Upanishad, likely composed before the Bhagavad Gita about 4th century BCE contains the theistic foundations of Shaivism wrapped in a monistic structure. ” – Wikipedia.
So these references are of not much use as the modern historical methods are not fool proof.
Secondly, if shaivism existed only later on then what do we classify Vishwamitrar, Agastyar, Ravana etc..Under what system do we classify as Markendyar who has lived for yugas and had worshipped both Lord Shiva and Lord Krishna.
Finally even if all these evidences are not convincing and if we assume that Shaivism was created post dwapra yuga, then why was the word “ishwara” given to Lord Shiva by Bheesma in Dwapara yuga, as shaivism was not created then and they had not yet grabbed the word.?
So only convincing answer is Sanatana Dharma has been existing eternally and all the vedic religions exist eternally, though the final destination of the different systems are different and not same.
I am deeply concerned by wrong comments given by saivaites on vaisnavism and by vaishnavites on saivism. It is time to get united and fight against aethistic forces which is going to surge in the form of non-vedic religions, forced vaccination, digital money and embedded chips in human body etc.
Adiyen
Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Sri EnPaNi fan Anand Swamy ,
First of all apologies. Adiyen intention not to create difference of opinion. Please forgive adiyen.
Adiyen like you and your devotion a lot .
The moment you said “Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha”
Adiyen fall at your lotus feets.
The question was related only to naming only.
Adiyen can call you enpanifan or Anand Swamy both points to you:)
So manas also should be aligned while pointing to you.
So question was deep.
Ajamilan called NArAyaNa his son
Sriman NArAyaNa thought it was himself
While I forgot name Nadathur Ammal name but i remember his good deeds to perumAL
So manas is aligned name not available
Sorry for thinking a lot
Dhanyosmi
Dasanudasan
Srimate Ramanujaya Namaha,
Dhanyosmi Vikram swamy.. Yes I did understand your question and have no concerns regarding the question.
I also appreciated the detailed answer made by Das swamy except for 1 statement.
But in his answer Das swamy made a statement which was concerning and so shared my thoughts on the same.
My view is all of sanatana dharma has to join forces against aethistic forces because we are facing an uphill task and there should be mutual respect and co-operation within santana dharma.
Dhanyosmi
Adiyen
Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Completely agreed Swamy.
There cannot be debate on whose mother is best.
Dasanudasan
Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
@Das Swamy
Dhanyosmi for answering.
We welcome all view points.
EnpaniFan Swamy said his view.
Please not to get upset.
Kshamikka PrArthikiren
Thanks for detailed response.
@Das Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam
Das-anu-dasan
Swamy,
I do not have any personal contact with anyone of the members of this forum. Hence, I do not have any idea about any of the members of this forum. I just wanted to post my opinion which is personal and unbiased towards anyone. I am not supporting any one.
I hope there are only a few number of forums involved in Spiritual discussions. That too such forums have limited number of members. Hence, l feel loosing any member will be a loss.
I am sorry, if I have exceeded my limit and if I am wrong as per the guidelines of the forum. It is just an opinion and nothing more than that.
Kindly excuse me.
adiyen
If I am wrong in posting the above, I have no objection in withdrawing my post.
adiyen
Or else Admin can delete my post, if it doesn’t conform to the guidelines of the forum.
adiyen
Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha!
Jayaram Swamy, what you have expressed is not misappropriate, It is a right feeling to want to discuss with other devotees. But do note that in a bigger picture , since Das swamy is devoted, if he is not in this forum , he will be rendering some service in other forum or with others, so it is is gain for them. So there is no loss from a holistic point of view.
Das swamy: Apologies if you were hurt. I took great care to maintain my respect towards you and just expressed my views on a particular aspect you had expressed.
If I was wrong, you could have presented your views further.
If you felt your earlier statement was wrong, you could have stated so.
But not sure what made you to decide to leave the platform. My best wishes for your service wherever you choose to do.
Dhanyosmi.
Adiyen
enpanifan swamy,
Thanks.
“”So there is no loss from a holistic point of view.””
Noted.
adiyen
Thiru Vikram swamy, Trivikrama swamy, namaskaram.
I think you question is answered here: (hear 4.00 to 4.30) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCpjx0mf6fI&list=PLhrdHlkOIj-UC7BIreCZY2Fh17Vo2HUep&index=83&frags=pl%2Cwn
adiyen dasan.
Dhanyosmi
My dear Kambandasan Swamy
Enpanifan Swamy
Das Swamy
Pd jayaram Swamy.
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy
Hope Adiyen not left anyone
Dasanudasan
Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha,
Jayaram Swamy, as per your request Das Swamy has not left the forum, he has rejoined under different name (twice after this) .
Adiyen
enpanifan swamy,
Good to note. Rejoined under what ID?.
adiyen
Swamy has answered in enpani audio 1905
Adiyen
Srimate Ramanujaye NAmaha,
Dhanyosmi Udayavaar swami for correcting and reminding what the focus should be.
Knowing the different names a Bhaagawaata is also bhagavat anubavam, is it not?
Moreover, Jayaram swamy was not happy that a member left this forum, so i informed that he has not left.. this is also part of Bhagavat Anubavam.
But i do accept there is part of mistake on my side as well. Will work on it. Dhanyosmi.
{On a lighter note.. the enapani audio 1905 where swami answered about change of name in real life is also related to this auxiliary discussion. Swami said one can keep upto 5 names during “Naamakaranam”..:)- }
Adiyen
Iam not anyone’s acharya,bitter truth
I think it is ‘very sweet truth’! 🙂
Swami, I did not point out any spelling mistake. I read it as you intended only..Bhagavat Anubhavam,,,but Bhaagavat Anubhavam is also part of Bhagavat Anubhavam as they cannot be separated.
Its OK , Krishna is so merciful that He provides correction anytime we become prideful.. In this case though there are many justifications i can make, but I may have been prideful that I can identify certain things, so He has inspired you to do the needful, and once i have realized the same, He convinces you otherwise.
Also I may be prideful now that i am able to accept my mistake..proud that I am humble :)-.. pride is so complex and intertwined with jeevatma for a long time ..only by Bhagawaan’s mercy and Achaarya’s mercy we can come out from this.
Adiyen
