Namaskaram bhaktha,
Had previously asked a similar question relating to science if there is any starting point for the cycle and got answer that there is none. Dont remember the enpani number. Paramatma Vedam and jeevatma are anadhi. Non existent state of prakruthi is during brahmas night .. prakrutha pralayam for 1000 chaturyugas .. only aalilai kuzhandhai Kannan .. ie Vadabadhrasai perumal n pralayam is seen. Lastly the 5 element nature is destroyed in rev order of its creation. From then on till bhagavan decided to start creation(on thayaars request) again there is no prakruthi. It’s created back by bagavan during vyasti shrusti.

Adiyen

Yes, moola prakruthi is also anAdi, just like ParamAtmA and JIvAtmA. During pralayam, moola prakruthi is in its sookshma sthithi (micro form) and during jananam (or creation), ParamAtmA transforms moola prakruthi in to its sthoola sthithi (macro form) using Himself. Therefore, moola prakruthi is never non-existent and is eternal.

Adiyen,
Dasan

Dhanyosmi for both interesting answers
Dasanudasan

Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruvae Namaha,

Dear Vikram Bhagavata,

There is only one answer based on Srimadh Bhagavatam as per Swami’s Pravachanams.

The 1st portion as per “adiyenramanujadasai” is correct and concluding as per “kidambi” bhagavata is correct.

From ‘moola prakruthi’ Perumal creates ‘Mahan’ and from ‘Mahan’ inturn ‘Ahankaram’ is created, from which 5 karmadriyangal, 5 gyanaendriyangal, 5 thann maatraigal, 5 pancha bootham is created. After Mahapralayam, each of them is dissolved and consolidated step-by-step in backward process and finally on Moola Prakruthi, which is “LAYAM” on Perumal’s thirumeni till the Shristi begins again.

Aadhi means begining or start point.
‘An’aadhi means start point CANNOT be ‘defined’. It is not suppose to be understood as ‘no’ start point.

So moola prakruthi existed for a undefined period and start point cannot be defined.

We cannot understand these aspects with our limited senses and karmas. So we keep questioning. So we follow a learned scholar like Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami and Acharyas as they have learned the shastras in & out.

Srimadh Bhagavadham is the pramaanam for these and Swami’s Pravachanams is inturn Pramaanam for adiyen and all bhaktas.

Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,
Sarvam SriKrisharpanam Asthu.

Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruvae Namaha,

In addition, Swami has repeated again the same from Srimadh Bhagavatam upanyasam for kids understanding in ‘Kinchit Yuva Vikas App’ enpani 018 ‘Few Aspects Of Creation’. Swami’s yuva vikas is refreshing for adiyen and most bhaktas, as we tend to forget the initial upanyasams due to our karmas/vaasanas.

Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,
Sarvam SriKrisharpanam Asthu.

Namaskaram,
Prakruthi in general is used to refer pancha bootham Prithvi, appu, Tejas, vayu, akasham. Apology for confusion. Yes moola prakruthi is in sukshma Rupam during pralayam and Perumal creates it into sthoola Rupam during samasti shrusti.
Still not sure if we can call it anadhi since everything merges with bagavan during pralayam.

Adiyen

Adiyen posted it in another thread. As this is older one, let Adiyen repost here so that the chain continues.

“Namaskaaram Swamy

Brahma Sutras 2.1.34

वैषम्यनैर्घृण्ये न सापेक्षत्वात्तथाहि दर्शयति।

Meaning: Partiality or cruelty cannot be attributed to God, as the creation has other reasons. This is also declared by Vedas.

Brahma Sutras 2.1.35

न कर्माविभागादिति चेत्नानादित्वात् ।

Meaning: If it be said that there is no distinction in the fruits of karma at the beginning of creation, we say no because the creation has no beginning.

Vedavyasar clearly states in Brahma Sutra that creation has no beginning and our karma is the cause of birth. Adiyen quoted above references to show that creation has no beginning.

The source of our jada creation is Moola Prakriti or Avyakta. As Baghavan is indweller of this Moola Prakriti also, Baghavan is the root cause. Similarly Baghavan is indweller of Jivas also.

Brahmam, Jiva, Moola Prakriti and Karma are all originless or Anadhi. However, Baghavan is self-sustained and completely independent, whereas rest depends on Him for their functioning. Hence, Baghavan is the cause of all.

As creation has no beginning, the Pralaya mentioned in scriptures is the period between one destruction and another creation. Origin of Creation mentioned in Upanishads is new creation after Pralaya.

Rig Veda 10.190.3

सूर्याचन्द्रमसौ धाता यथापूर्वमकल्पयत्।

दिवं च पृथ्वीं चान्तरिक्षमथो स्वः ।।

Meaning: The creator, in this cycle creates the sun and the moon, the celestial region, the earth, the midspace and the region of bliss as in the previous creation.

(The region of bliss does not mean Vaikuntam, as it is indestructible due to absence of time-space constraints).

Adiyen recently wrote an article on karma and originless creation in Adiyen’s website. Hence Adiyen was able to respond with references.

Kindly forgive Adiyen if Adiyen’s understanding is wrong.

Daasanu Daasan Srinivasan”

Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruvae Namaha,

Dear BhagavAtas,

Swami has said in the past enpanis and upanyasams about upanishadh vaakyam:

“Yasya Athma Shareeram, Yasya Prithvi Shareeram”.

Means both Chit (Athma) and Achit (Prithvi) is shareeram (body) for BhagavAn Sriman Narayanan.

This is “tatva trayam” –> Chit, Achit & ParamaAthma (3 main tatvams)

Prithvi doesnt limit to 5 pancha bhootham. Prithvi means ‘all Achits’.

Prithvii is divided into 24 Achit tatvams as above mentioned from Swami’s Srimadh Bhagavatam. Then Chit then ParamAthma, which makes a total of 26 as per Swamis pravachanams.

From Bhavans thirumeni “moola prakruthi” the creation starts and goes back after maha pralayam.

Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,
Sarvam SriKrisharpanam Asthu.

Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruvae Namaha,

1) ParamAthma (ONE & ONLY ONE Sriman NarayanAn),
2) Chits (Countless JeevAthmas ‘Sentients all of us),
3) Achits (Countless Jada Porul ‘Insentient),

When Perumal is Anaadhi, Perumal’s Thirumeni is also Anaadhi. Hence, All these three are “Anaadhi” and existed forever.

The moola prakruthi from Perumal’s thirumeni takes into different forms due to Perumal’s sankalpam during Shristi in Leela Vibhoothi and consolidated back to Perumal Thurumeni during Maha Pralayam.

The Prakruthi in Leela vibhoothi is “PRAKRUTHA MANDALAM (MISHRA TATVAM (mixed tatvam)”, means made up of all these “Rajas, Tamas, Satvam & Kaalam (time) and karmas are attached to all JeevAthmas”. This is the place we currently reside.

During all the Shristi and Consolidation of this Leela Vibhoothi (Material world), the SriVaikuntam “Nithya Vibhoothi (Spiritual world) which is beyond “Virajai river” is “UNTOUCHED” as it is a Permanent Physical place which is not subject to creation and dissolution. Hence it is the ParamaPadham or Moksham etc…So by Acharya Samasrayanam one chooses the Sharanagathy margam to reach SriVaikuntam for “NITHYA KAINKARYAM”, Upayam (route) & Upeyam (destination) are both Perumal ThiruvAdi.

SriVaikuntam also has Prakruthi (Perumal’s Aannadhi Thirumeni). This prakruthi has also pancha bhootham, But this Prakruthi is “APRAKRUTHA MANDALAM” , means it doesn’t have ‘Rajas,Tamas, karmas and Kaalam (time) and NO karmas attached to JeevAthmas as it is ERASED in Virajai Nadhai for a Sharanagathan’. Hence, this prakruthi is “Suddha satvam” Only.

References:
Swami’s pravachanams on Srimadh BhagavAtam (Kannanin Arulamudham), Alwargal Vaibhavam (introduction), Vaikunta Gadhyam and past enpanis etc….

Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,
Sarvam SriKrishna Kudumbham,
Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu.