Sri ranga nachiyar samedha sri ranganathan thiruvadigale saranam,?Sri mathe ramanujaya namaha?swami, namaskaram ?Will a day come when all jeevathma attains moksha?And what will happen if all jeevathma attains moksha??Adiyen ramanuja dasan?
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Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,
Namaskaram ‘G’ Swami,
Sri Velukkudi Swamy has beautifully graced answer to this question in the past Enpani #89 “Will Athmas Reduce to Zero”, that BhaddAthmas in Samsaram are Infinite and there is no point where all BhaddhAthmas reach Moksham.
Swamy says a formula in relation to spirituality,
“Infinite minus Infinite Equals to Infinite”,
So even if we consider Infinite BhaddhAthmas out of the Infinite BhaddhAthmas reach Moksham, still Infinite BhaddhAthmas will remain. So Samsaram always exist (Nithyam),
Swamy also provides a supplement enpani #90 “where after this life” in continuation to enpani #89.
????
https://www.kinchit.org/kinchit-en-pani/51-100/
Adiyen Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan
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samsaram goes through cycles of creation and annihilation as per Perumal’s system. It is not nithyam. Kindly reconsider your answer.
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Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,
Namaskaram Kambandasan Swami,
Adiyen also agree with the Micro level understanding as devareer in initial stages, but later due to Acharya ThiruvAdi Bhalam, Swami has graced the Macro level understanding that “Nithyam” means Permanent and Samsaram is Nithyam.
Though it is understood by every devotees that Samsaram undegoes cycles of Creation & Absorbtion, this process in Samsaram is REPETITIVE and hence infinite (no ending) due to BhagavAn’s necessity to help BhaddhAthmas like us (Adiyen or devareer or any one of us) due to our Karma’s, Avidhya (ignorance) , Vaasanas, Ruchi, AHANKARAM, Mamakaram etc…, So BhagavAn keeps doing this Creation/Absorbtion process continuously which has no end, hence Samsaram is Permanent “Nithyam”.
Sri Vaikuntam is also “Nithyam” Permanent, but it doesn’t go through any Creation/Absorbtion process, since the MukhtAmas & NithyAthmas DONT have ANY KARMAS. We only spent time in Kainkaryam.
Hence,
* both Samsaram & SriVaikuntam is “Nithyam” (Permanent),
* but Samsaram is “Anithya Sukham” (Temperory Happiness) and SriVaikuntam is “Nithya Sukham” Permanent Happiness).
Adiyen believe, the Samsaram’s nature “Anithya Sukham” would have triggered devareer to make statement as Samsaram is not Nithyam.
Anyway, we all are Same ThiruvAdi as UDDHARAKA Acharyar Swami Ramanujar through our own Upakara Acharyan’s ThiruvAdi via Sri Velukkudi Swami’s Abhimaanam and Aasirvadham
????
Adiyen Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan
Infinite naaley idhaan prachanai. Sometimes its hard to beleive or understand his leelai.
Nithya Soori na cha punar avarthathey. Yet garudar came in Srimad Ramayana.
Adiyen already asked this question but yet again.
They are bounded by quantum mechanics. A “mysterious force”. Not traditional physics.
AprAkrutha thirumeni in prakruthi mandalam
So they are in multiple places at the same time. They cannot be individualized as per adiyen’s understanding.
Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Srimathe Sri Varaha Mahadesikaya Namaha
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam
????????
Adiyen dasanudasan
Brahma Sathyam Jagan Mithya Jeevo ekaika na para:
Avan maa maayan
Entire world all universe is a cascading effect
No starting no ending points
Lord Krishna showed his mouth
There yashoda amma saw world inside world inside world
Yashodha another yashodha…
Krishna inside another Krishna’…
Samsaram is a vicious cycle. Infinitely temporary 🙂
ElayaAzhwaar swamy,
thank you for your clear explanation. If acharyas have explained the word ‘nithyam’ this way I definitely agree.
My understanding until now is, ‘nityam’ is something that continuously exists. Based on this understanding, since samsaram does not exist between one annihilation and next creation (the phase when all baddha-atmas are resting in Perumal’s Thirumeni) the word nithyam does not apply for samsaram. For example, I can not say ‘spring season’ is everlasting just because there is a spring season every year. Spring season has a beginning, and end every year; then there is a break and then it appears again next year.
Based on this kind of logic I had considered it to be not correct to say ‘samsaram is nithya’. But definitely acharyas know better and we accept them.
danyosmi.
adiyen dasan.
Swamy,
Yes. Technically according to adiyen TIME FACTOR HAS NO MEANING to human beings.
LIGHT YEAR = The time taken by light to travel an year.
It’s difficult to comprehend.
We won’t even exist for 1 light year.
Modern scientists say worm hole can connect teo interstellar galaxies which are yet to be found as Time can be bent due to Gravity according to Einstein.
As athma we are not sure if we are born before or after pralayams annihilation. If karmA is anAdi beginningless (Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy) then samsaram be ever repeating. In that context we can say “Always” repeating.
So “always repeating” is considered as Nithyam here.
If ahalya was stone for ever or if Sri Ram had not crossed what would have happened?
Keeping this mind, there is chance of another creation for such souls.
In the whole cycle only body is subject to change and athma remains the same.
The birth death cycle of body repeats
Athma never born or dead
To a soul the creation amd annihilation of body itself a Prakruthi
So, nithyam is not with specific to one athma though creation happens by Bhagavan’s karuNai to execute karma and be nullified.
Veda says sky doesn’t know existence of ocean
Ocean doesn’t know existence of sky
Athma knows both he witnesses
So, is this creation specific to athma?
Its like , there is darkness so i cannot see
Vs
My eyes are closed so I cannot see
We are here experiencing the realities within the boundaries of 5 senses
As we are within the creation not outside the creation it basically doesn’t matter creation itself is time bound or finite .
I need to be outside creation to experience the cycling.
Please forgive any mistakes
Dasanudasan
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Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,
Nandri Kambandasan Swami for the understanding with devareer’s Acharya Krupai about the fact of Creation/Absorption is Repetitive process and hence The EXISTENCE of Samasaram as “Nithyam”
Adiyen would like to add little more details for clarity with Acharya ThiruvAdi Bhalam and Velukkuid Sri Krishnan Swmai’s Aasrivadham for the additional questions that may or maynot be dwelling in anyone’s mind, similar to Vikram Swami’s question in his mind about Samsaram being Permanent “Nithyam” and Status of BhaddAthmas in Samsaram.
This has been explained by Swami in Muntaka Upanishad, which has been again reestablished in “Yathintra Mata Deepika” by Swami Ramanujar using a simple example of PEACOCK (male peafowl). There is an Actual Sanskrit Verse of this Peacock example in Upanishad, which adiyen don’t recollect now, but the meaning is as follows.
This Upanisahd vaakyam is just a closet example to portray BhagavAn Sriman NarayanAn’s Creation/Absorption theory of Samsaram, but the actual magnanimity of BhagavAn is not limited to this Peacock example.
Peacock has its “Main Body” with “Beautiful Feathers”,
Peacock is BhagavAn SrimAn NarayaNAn (ParamAthma),
Main Body is “Sri Vaikuntam (Nithya Vibhoothi or Moksham or Peru Veedu)”
Feathers is the “Samsaram (Leela Vibhoothi)”
So, the Main Body (SriVaikuntam) & Feathers (Samsaram) are always attached PERMANENTLY to the Peacock (BhagavAn Sriman NarayanA),
Peacock Expanding its Feathers (Samsaram) is considered as BhagavAn’s Creation from Moola Prakruthi, Mahan, Ahankarama, Pancha Bhootham etc……..
Peacock Contracting its Feathers (Samsaram) is considered as BhagavAn’s Absorption process (Maha Pralayam)
A peacock does this Expansion/Contraction process as many times as it wants, so the process is REPETITIVE. So, all the times, the Main Body and Feathers are Always Permanent (Nithyam), it is just the Expansion/Contraction of the Feathers are treated as Creation and Absorption process of BhagavAn Sriman NarayanAn which is One cycle and this cycle is repetitive, since Samsaram (Feathers) are always Permanently in BhagavAn’s Thirumeni.
******************
As far as the individual BhaAddthams in Samsaram are considered, not all of their presence in Samsaram is Nithyam (Permanent), since they can reach Moksham as well, but the Samsaram itself is Nithyam (Permanent), since there are other countless BhAddAthmas which are yet to reach Moksham either by following Upasana Maargham (Karma-Gyana-Bhakthi Maargham) Or Sharnagathy Maargham like us on Acharya Ramanujar ThriuvAdi,
- Hence a BhaadhATham when it reaches SriVaikuntam , it is called as MukAthmas. This is called as “Naimithika Pralayam”
- Other BhaddAdthmas who have not reached Moksham undergoes the Birth-Death Cycle process inside Samsaram based on their Punya/Paapa Karmas and Anthima Srithi (Last minute thought in death bed). This is called “Nithya Pralayam” of an Individual BhaddAthma’s birth-Death repetitive cycle inside samsaram.
- There is also a Pralayam called as “”Aathyanthika Pralayam”, which is nothing but three of the lokams “Bhoo, Bhuvaha, Suvaha lokams” are dissolved After Brahma’s 12hrs (1000 Chatur Yuga) completion.
- The final one is the Praakritha Pralayam (Maha Pralayam) which is complete Absorption of the Samsaram by BhagavAn Sriman NarayanA after Brahma’s 100 years of life span is over. The above 3 pralayams happens within the period of the this 4 type pralayam This is the Peacock Contraction, but still the Feather (Samsaram ALWAYS exists “NITHYAM” PERMENENT) due to the fact that there are other BhaaddAthmas without any body are in LAYAM on BhagavAn’s Thurumeni waiting for next creation process to get body, then follow of the Maarghams for Moksham.
Hence, Samsaram itself is Nithyam, but Individual BhaadAthmas presence in Samsarm is not necessarily Nithyam, if they reach Moksham as type 1).
Adiyen Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan.
Elayaalwar swamy,
thank you for explaining clearly with references. The peacock analogy given by our acharyas is beautiful!
adiyen dasan.
Yes peacock example waa explained by Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy
Adiyen remember listening when walking on Tidel park -Thiruvanmiyur railway station road
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