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planets vs karma vs God s grace vs our efforts enpani 1840

Updated on August 21, 2020 in General
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8 on August 19, 2020

Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha!

Namaskaraam swami. It was a pleasure to hearing the interesting topic in today’s enpani, where  the so called inconsistencies between horoscope, past karma and God’s grace and our efforts was explained in a such a way that there is no contradiction in all the four.

I fully accept and agree the explanation.  But would like to add some observations which i have seen which may be true or may be not.. But would like swami to confirm if this understanding is correct.

When one is not devoted and not taking steps/effort as per sastra then things happen as per one’s past karma as indicated in horoscope and it is a straight forward case.

But in case of one having bad karma/horoscope, and one tries to rectify himself as per saastras and becomes devoted to God, it appears that the malefic effects are not nullified but reduced to a bearable amount, but rather Lord engages the soul in other spiritual engagements and gives him the mental stability, patience and tolerance  to pull through the events..so it appears the change is in spiritual realm and not in material realm.

Is this understanding correct?

Adiyen

 

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கம்பன்தாசன் 0 on August 19, 2020

Velukkudi Swamy Thiruvadigale Saranam.

Swamy, let me please place a related question here. In this Enpani1840 you clearly explained how when our efforts are in the direction instructed by God He takes care of adjusting karma. This is fully understandable.

In this context, how to interpret:

தெய்வத்தான் ஆகாது எனினும் முயற்சிதன்
மெய்வருத்தக் கூலி தரும்

It always makes me wonder how can Thiruvalluvar who has beautifully summarised the Carama-slokam in

பற்றுக பற்றற்றான் பற்றினை அப்பற்றைப்
பற்றுக பற்று விடற்கு

say something that seems to place our effort higher than God’s mercy in the தெய்வத்தான் ஆகாது Kural.

Thiruvalluvar know Perumal is the ultimate; still he seems to say our effort is higher. Or is he refering to devantharams by the word தெய்வத்தான் ?

Kindly help us understand, swamy.

adiyen dasan.

 

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enpanifan 0 on August 19, 2020

Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha,

Can  holding on to Perumaal’s thiruvadi and following His instructions  be categorized under “Muyarchi”/effort in the above Kural?

Adiyen

 

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கம்பன்தாசன் 1 on August 19, 2020

Our swamy clearly explained in enpani that our effort must be in holding on to his lotus feet, and He takes care of our reactions.

But if that is what this kural is saying, then why “தெய்வத்தான் ஆகாது எனினும்”? It seems to place our effort higher than the தெய்வம்’s sankalpa. But our philosophy is Perumal’s sankalpam is above everthing. In fact our upayam to go back to Him is also His sankalpa and nothing else. So I have been having a நெருடல் with this kural. I hope our Swamy explains.

adiyen dasan.

enpanifan on August 19, 2020

Swamy, i was thinking that jeevatma’s free will is something Perumaal does not control, so if we do muyarchi/effort to exercise the free will to hold on to Perumaal then that will help. In that we  way this kural will not conflict our understanding. is it not?

Adiyen

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RS 0 on August 20, 2020

Swamin,

“தெய்வத்தான் ஆகாது எனினும்”? -here “as per destiny or fate not possible”, …Is how meaning is derived so far from what I have read….For the term ‘Daeivaththan”.

Adiyen
Ramanujadaasan.

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RS 1 on August 20, 2020

Swamin,

Related Thirukkurals:

ஊழிற் பெருவலி யாவுள மற்றொன்று
சூழினுந் தான்முந் துறும்.

ஊழையும் உப்பக்கம் காண்பர் உலைவின்றித்
தாழாது உஞற்று பவர்.

If we know the chronology of these writings, then we may be able to note how Thiruvalluvar’s thoughts evolved from which thought to which – Fate or Efforts, which holds the upper hand.

Adiyen Ramanujadaadan.

கம்பன்தாசன் on August 21, 2020

Beautiful! Thank you RS swamy. Yes it is indeed very important to know the context of a quotation. If we try to interpret out of context we may derive wrong meanings. That is why it is important to learn from acharyas or those who have heard the correct explanation from appropriate source. Thank you very much for confirming that the ‘theivathaal’ word here is indeed refering to the devantharams who are incharge of the planets which influence the course of our life.

So, even if the devanthaarams who control our life are not helpful, if we take the effort to hold on to acharyan’s thiruvadi, Perumal will direct our life towards Him.

adiyen dasan.

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RS 0 on August 21, 2020

Swamy, Namaskaaram.

Yes, steadfast devotion to Bhagawan all through our life will help to cross over this samsara safely, as highlighted by our Swamy. Sometimes, time has to ripe to reach that level of devotion.
How to relate karma with vasana and ruchi? Repeated actions ie karmas become vasana…Still higher level is state of ruchi for such and specific actions – then is vasana and ruchi is nothing but intense karma and in a way, in subsequent births, actions get done due to influence of vasana and ruchi, generating again specific paapam or punyam. So if actions get done due to vasana/ruchi developed over earlier births, where is jeevan’s swathandriyam in the current birth?

Final answer will be develop devotion / struggle to stay devoted to Bhagawan, though there will be distractions and some point vasanas get burnt up!

Adiyen
Ramanujadaasan.

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