Shraddhai how much important?

Updated on May 3, 2020 in Good qualities for human
6 on April 30, 2020

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Srimathe Sri Varaha Mahadesikaya Namaha
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam

Sri:

At one end we say mantra is like fire. It will burn your finger whether you touch knowingly or unknowingly (Same for nAma Sankeerthanam sAnkethyam pArihAsyam vA sthOthram yevam helanam va)

At other end we say Srimath BhAgavatham will get you moksham but you didn’t listen with full devotion like Pariskhit

Adiyen not sure if those are moksha sAdhanAs. What is the intent of the two differentiatial statements?

How much is shraddai important?

If mantra gives same results everytime it becomes science. Experiment will give same result everytime whether you do with bhakthi or not

Semushi bhakthi roopa

What is need for devotion?

Dasanudasan

 
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5 on April 30, 2020

Srimate Ramnujaye Namaha!

Namaskaaram.

Interesting Question

My understanding is that mantras/ slokas recited without proper bhakthi will still give benefit and will burn away the sins and will piety remain as agjnana sukriti..in the soul’s karma account.

But actually only when the soul develops the desire to serve God (moksha) then all those past pious account comes to help him to progress in that path and the effect of those mantras will fructify.

So yes effect of mantras is there but simultaneously proper intent is required if one wants to attain moksha. (But for other material benefits, soul in material world naturally have the intent anyway, so mantras will work)

Regarding “Experiment will give same result everytime whether you do with bhakthi or not” needs to be reconsidered as the results of many experiments depend on the skill/knowledge care taken by the experimenter.

Adiyen

on April 30, 2020

Ok Swamy

Experimenter if he does it wrong its problem of experimenter not the experiment itself.

Under the lab or ideal testing conditions experiments should give the same results that’s why is called science

Recently listened to Mukkur NarasimhAchAriyar swamy discourse about veda saying “PrANa vAyu one time & other two times”
Nothing but H2O hydrogen twice oxygen once

In AtharvaNa Vedam

If we mix it wrongly we may not get water

That’s why adiyen raised this question

Dasanudasan

on April 30, 2020

Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha!

Swami, in ideal science, experiments are repeatable.(In today’s science world it is not the case..that is another story..). But assuming even if it is repeatable, with the procedure, the skills and knowledge required to do the experiment are also part of the experiment recipe.

For example if we take a simple experiment of cooking sakara pongal with all steps listed down..assuming everybody follows the same steps and same ingredients, will everybody’s final preparation taste the same..There is an element of art/practice involved in science as well, but modern science negates it as it is difficult to quantity in terms of numbers.

In spiritual science and vedas this  subtle element of art/practice is the character/discipline and tapas of the practitioner, depending on which one’s mind behaves differently and influences the outcome of result.

Similarly, though mantras do give results like science, it will work partially for materially motivated mantras. (But the efficacy will depend on the quality of mind which is the main tool  used in the experiment of reciting mantras)

But for mantras for attaining moksha if one recites without bhakthi, it will only add to pious credit of the soul and only when the soul voluntarily wants to have bhakthi will they manifest their effect. Because by definition “Bhakthi” is voluntarily wanting to serve and surrender to Supreme Lord, which is the end goal as well. So if one recites mantras without Bhakthi means reciter does not want the end goal of devotion and service to Lord, so naturally one will not reach there.

In another perspective, it is not mantras that leads one to moksha, but ones efforts and thought process ( Bhakthi) which pleases Guru and Acharya, induces them to pull us back there. So just mantra recitation without Bhakthi does not help in spiritual realm, but may work for materially motivated cases.

Adiyen

 

 

 

on May 1, 2020

Swamigalukku adiyen namaskaram.

As our Velukkudi swami told multiple times, none of the above can be moksha sadhanas directly. Only sriman narayanan can be. It is bagavath preethi which can give us moksham. That is why devotion is very important as that shows our intent, which is what baghavan cares about.

Secondly, with my kinchitha gnanam, I don’t think there is any mantra for moksham. Mantras are for karma, Ghana and bakthi yogams or for kayinkaryam. So that means they should be recited as much correctly as possible. And again, here also intent/devotion is important as only that can result in bagavath preethi, which is the fruit of the mantra.

தவறேதும் இருந்தால் மன்னிக்கவும்.

on May 2, 2020

Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha!

Namaskaaram. Swami,True, what you have indicated is very true.

What you have written is the summary of what i tried to express above as well, except that mantras in rituals in karma kanda section of Vedas do yield  some partial expected results (but may not be beneficial in absolute sense to the person) even when recited without bhakthi. 

Regarding Moksha, yes you are correct it happens only by Bhagavan Preethi.

Adiyen

 

 

on May 3, 2020

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Srimathe Sri Varaha Mahadesikaya Namaha
Srimathe Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam

Sri:

Beautiful discussion
While our Acharyan udayavar insists on
“semushi bhakthi roopa”

Adiyen found out from Govindashtakam of
Adi Shankaracharya also speaks about shraddha bhakthi

श्रद्धाभक्तिगृहीतानन्दमचिन्त्यं चिन्तितसद्भावं
चिन्तामणिमहिमानं प्रणमत गोविन्दं परमानन्दम् ॥परमानन्दम् ५

Anyone eho knows Sanskrit can explain but adiyen tjink this is related

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Dasanudasan

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