Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Swamy,

“However, to address the challenges in the above requirements”

Please explain the requirements.

Dasanudasan

As explained in the sloka 8.10,

One who, at the time of death, fixes his life air between the eyebrows and, by the strength of yoga, with an undeviating mind, engages himself in remembering the Supreme Lord in full devotion, will certainly attain the Supreme.

so not all of us can do the said above to attain Moksha. These are the requirements adiyen mentioned above. 

Badri swamy! Your answers are very nice! 🙂 Thank you for sharing.

adiyen dasan.

Dhanyosmi Swami, all glories to asmath acharyan and Sri Velukkudi Swamigal!

Super Swamy

Badrinarayana Ramanuja Dasan thank you

” One who, at the time of death, fixes his life air between the eyebrows and, by the strength of yoga, with an undeviating mind, engages himself in remembering the Supreme Lord in full devotion, will certainly attain the Supreme ”

Dasanudasan

SriVaishnava Swami,

In 8.6, it’s said “smaran”. adiyen referred to an English translation, which may not always do a good job of conveying the meaning.  If we go by the sanskrit word then it conveys the meaning properly. Always our Velukkudi Swami encourages us to learn the scriptures moola language to avoid these kinds of translation challenges. For additional english translation, devareer may refer to http://githa.koyil.org/index.php/8-6-original/

In many thirumozhi’s pala shruthi, Azhwars have said if you recite this thirumozhi you will reach Vaikuntam. To reach Vaikuntam we all know Karma has to be nullified and the soul that reaches Sri Vaikuntam have to travel via path of light or archiradhi margam. What devareer said is part of the process. So adiyen mentioned the same for 8.10 also. 

adiyen! 

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

BrahmaSri Damodara Dheekshitar Swamy upanyasam,

Aham smArayAmi nu nirvAham

என் நினைவை நான் அவனுக்கு ஊட்டுகிறேன்

I will make him remembrance

Here adiyen take privilege of Aadi Moolamey Gajendran

They say remembrance due to poorva janma vAsanA

Adiyen say it’s due to VarAha Perumal

Perumal must have made Gajendra remember Perumal during last moments

Dasanudasan

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

The link devareer provided “yam yam vApi”
Small correction , Swamy Desikan refutes it, in tAtparya Chandrika kAlakshEpam

“one leaves the body, at time of death, that he becomes, Kaunteya”

If one thinks of Perumal he won’t become Perumal ,only sAmyApaththi says Sri U. Ve, Villur NadAthur KaruNAkarAchAr Swamy

Dasanudasan

Yes Swami we all know there is one and only one Perumal and no one can be second or replace Him. 

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Adiyen told this because “self translation” without AchArya interpretation will lead to such confusion.

So many youths are mis directed. The points of Veda are beautifully connected by our PoorvAchAryAs.

One small instance:
Our Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy used to say:

“Poorva BhAgam says You cannot know Brahmam
Uttara BhAgam says You can know Brahmam
Is Vedam contradicting?
Not at all Ghatakam (Bridge) Sruthi says You can know Brahmam that he is not Knowable”

Dasanudasan

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

SriVaishnava Dasan Swamy,

Can adiyen ask this way?

“Can wish be made without remembrance?”

The root of kAmA (Aasai) comes from not attaining something is what adiyen understand

If that kAmA has to work out it has to be imprinted in memory correct?

So, VarAha charama shlokA is addressing memory before it transforms to a wish.

A wish is an expression of one’s want which is stored in the memory. Am I right?

Dasanudasan

Wish involves desire whereas remembrance is mere thinking and do not involve one’s desire.

The literature meaning of wish and remember are ::

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wish

to have a desire for (something, such as something unattainable) (//wished he could live his life over)

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/remember

to bring to mind or think of again (//remembers the old days)

Swamy,

The question is can you wish without recollecting your memories?

Dasanudasan

Swami,

To your query around “keep wishing throughout) to become as a king / minister / Indra / deva in his next janma and can he become so?”

If someone with bad karma wishes to be king / minister as per the below BG verse 16.19. He will become so may be the king of demons. adiyen’s understanding from listening to acharyas lectures is that depending on your Karma you will certainly become what you wish at the time of death in your next life except for liberation as that is not tied to Karma. 

tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān
saṁsāreṣu narādhamān
kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān
āsurīṣv eva yoniṣu

Also adiyen don’t know where tenkalai comes into picture. as adiyen only quoted moola slokas for reference. For detailed explanations adiyen prefer to refer our Velukkudi Swami’s BG explanation file for reference 007-Chapter-8-Track-07

adiyen. 

Also reg. your query around “Jadabaradhan did not wish to be born as a deer, our Swami explains this in “006-Chapter-8-Track-06” 14th minute.  

All these explanations of swami are based on Udayars Gita Bhashyam, which doesn’t subscribe to any kalai. Also he refers to Vendata Desikars explanation in detail as well. 

According to Udayavars Bhasyam, the purport given to 8.6

6. Whatsoever concept (bhāvam) one thinks of while leaving the body at the end, to that alone one attains, O Arjuna, having ever been in the contemplation thereof.

The thought that occupies the mind while dying, is that which determines the state attained after death. The final thought arises only with reference to objects [and experiences] that were previously the most frequently contemplated upon during one’s life.

Badri swami,

Thank you for your efforts. Sorry for making you to put extra efforts.

Still, adiyen’s mind does not accept ‘wish’ in the line of discussion, even with your latest ref, since it mention thinking only, which does not have the ‘desire’. However, I will leave it at that.

At times, I have checked srivaishnavism.redzambala.com for Udaiyavar’s Gita Bhashyam. Can you indicate the ref for Udaiyavar’s Gita Bhashyam.

Thank you for providing the swamy’s upanyasam ref. I will try to listen leisurely.

In this forum I have observed many times members seeking and expecting for ref of some specific links. I am not sure about the basis of the ref links one is expecting. Hence, I thought it could be on kalai. Will there be any difference in moola slokas itself or in their translation. Thus, I have asked for the references.

adiyen

The question is can you wish without recollecting your memories?From vikraminside

Lot of information are stored as memory. All information, which are recollected can not be a wish. Just because an information is recollected can not be termed as a wish. Wish should have individual’s desire, that is why I gave dictionary ref. I strongly believe, existence of  two different words ‘wish’ and ‘remembering’ in the language would have known to the author. He used only remember or brooding. Since there is no desire involved, it can not be termed a wish.

However, I will leave it at that, respecting individual’s perception.

Very nice question! The key in this verse is “tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ”. Both Udayavar and Desikar emphasize this point as clearly noticeable in our Swami’s upanyasam. The final thought will not be something random but something that we have pondered for a long time in our life on. 

8.6 O Son of Kunti, smaran, thinking of; bhavam, any entity, any particular deity; yam yam va api, which ever it may be; tyajati, one gives up; the kalevaram, body; ante, at the end, at the time of the departure of life; eti, he attains; tam tam eva, that very one, that very entity which is remembered-none else; having been sada, always; tadbhava-bhavitah, engrossed in its thought. Engrossment in it is tad-bhavah; one by whom that is remembered as a matter of habitual recollection is tadbhava-bhavitah. Since the last thought is thus the cause of acquiring the next body-

Reg. your question on “Will there be any difference in moola slokas itself “

The answer is 100% NO, regardless of philosophy or theology, the source verse remains unchanged. 

adiyen

adiyen listened to sri. VK swamy’s upanyasam on the verses under discussion in chapter 8. He clearly mentions that it is the process throughout the life. The prayer (here it is wish), of what one desires, is done initially during earlier part of life. The desire and He should be remembered throughout. The upasana is to be followed accordingly. Such a person, will attain what he remember (of this desire) at the last minute. He indicated three types of attainment through this.   They are  1. seeker of aisvarya, 2. seeker of kaivalya and 3. seeker of Perumal only. Verse 8.10 is for seeker of aisvarya and they have to come back to samsara.

It is clearly mentioned as the initial prayer and life long process of remembrance lead one to the attainment and not remembering at the last minute as the discussion went on in this thread. adiyen picked up discussion since, the word “ichchha” or it’s equivalent was not seen in the verse and discussion continued indicating last minute remembrance and not indicating the prayer / desire done in one’s earlier part of life. Since I do not know the language, if I find any difference arise in the commentary, I check for the key words in the slokas.

The above mentioned three cases are for those who pray, desire, remember constantly, do upasana accordingly etc., Others will get the birth according to what he remember at the last minute where there is no prayer / wish done by them. Swamy has mentioned that Jadabharadhan case does not fall under these three and he was born as a deer, since he was remembering about deer at the time of his death and not out of his wish.

adiyen