Was ramanujar a alwar ?

Updated on June 16, 2020 in Azhwars
13 on January 19, 2020

?Sri ranga nachiyar samedha sri ranganathan thiruvadigale saranam?Srimathe ramanujaya namaha?Srimath varavara muniye namaha?alwar emberumanar jeeyar thiruvadigale saranam? namaskaram ?swami , I am following thennacharya sampradhyam.In upadesha rathinamalai manavala mamunigal had mentioned ramanujar in alwar’s list.Also swami desikan in his desika prabandham mentioned ramanujar in alwar’s list.Also parasara bhattar in the podhu daniyan “பூதம் ஸரஸ்ச மஹதாஹ்வய…………”, had mentioned ramanujar as “srimath parangusa munim” in the daniyan.only by adding ramanuja nootrandhadi there were 4000 pasurams in prabandham.If ramanuja nootrandhadi was taken,then there will be only 3892 pasurams.Also all acharyas including manavala mamunigal and desikan had said ramanujar as a alwar.Then why In our present thenkalai sampradayam,they are not considering ramanujar as a alwar??please forgive me if adiyen had did any mistake?Manavala mamunigal thiruvadigale saranam?Adiyen ramanuja dasan?

 
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0 on January 19, 2020

Adiyen Sri Ramanuja Dasan
Swamy
Ramanuja was an Acharya .This is news to adiyen.
Thanks for asking with references and quotations
Dasanudasan
????????
????????

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0 on January 20, 2020

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

adiyEn is unsure of mentions in upadEsa rathina mAlai and desikar prabandam. As far as the thaniyan slOka by parAshara bhattar, adiyEn feels bhattar wrote so out of his devotion towards swAmi rAmAnujA.

As per adiyEn’s knowledge, even vadakalai sampradAyam don’t consider swAmi rAmAnujA to be an AzhwAr. It also appears that in the thaniyan quoted by dEvareer, bhattar has mentioned koorathAzhwAn as well. 

Bhootham - BoothathAzhwaar
Saras - Poigai Azhwaar
mahadaahvaya - Pey Azhwaar
Bhatta nAtha - PeriyAzhwaar
Bhakthisaara - Thirumazhisai Azhwaar Kulasekara - KulasEkaraAzhwaar
YOgivaahaan - ThirupaaN Azhwaar
BhakthAngrirEnu - Thondaradippodi AzhwAr parakAla - Thirumangai AzhwAr
Yathindra - Emperumaanaar misrAn - KooratthAzhwAn (adiyEn not 100% sure about this, please correct me)
parAnkusamuni - NammAzhwAr

Krishnan Swami has also explained differences between Rishis, Azhwars and Acharyas with an example in En Pani 1389, adiyEn humbly suggests to listen to the same.

adiyEn srInivAsa dAsan
doddayAchArya thiruvadigale sharanam
Velukkudi Krishnan swAmi thiruvadigale sharanam
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0 on January 20, 2020

Namaskaram.?Swamy,adiyen is not eligible to say.But i think misran is not kooratthalzhwan(not sure)in the above daniyan.For your kind reference? 1)In prapanda charam of desika prapandham,swami desikan clearly mentions ramanujar as a alwar.While composing a song on each alwar,at last he composes a song for sri ramanujar.Moreover,while concluding prapanda charam of desika prapandham he clearly mentions the name of alwars as follow “வையகம் எண் பொய்கை பூதம் பேயாழ்வார் மழிசையர்கோண் மகிழ் மாறன் மதுரகவிகள்* பொய்யில் புகல் கோழியர்க்கோண் விட்டுசித்தன் பூங்கோதை தொண்டரடிப்பொடி பாணாழ்வார்* ஐயன் அருள் கலியன் “எதிராசர்” தம்மோடு ஆறிருவர் ஓரொருவர் அவராதாம் செய்த* துய்ய தமிழ் இருபத்து நான்கின் பாட்டின் தொகை நாலாயிரமும் அடியோங்கள் வாழ்வே.?
2)moreover dushyanth sridhar swamy in his upanyasam mentioned that ramanujar was a alwar.?3)finally our manavala manunigal in his upadesha ratinamalai mentioned ramanujar as a alwar.While mentioning alwar’s name ,at last he had mentioned ramanujar.?Pasuram 21-“ஆழ்வார் திருமளார் ஆண்டாள் * மதுரகவி ஆழ்வார் எதிராசர் ஆம் இவர்கள்* வாழ்வாக வந்துதித்த மாதங்கள் நாள்கள் தம்மின் வாசியையும் * இந்த உலகோர்க்கு உறைப்போம் யாம்”?. In pasuram 34-சீராரும் வில்லிபுத்தூர் செல்வத்திருக்கோளூர் ஏரார் பெரும்பூதூர் என்னுமிவை* பாரில் மியாரும் ஆண்டாள் மதுரகவியாழ்வார் எதிராசர் தோன்றியவதரிங்கு.?Moreover,after mentioning andal and madura kavi alwar’s birth nakshathira,manavala mamunigal mentioned the birth nakshathiram of ramanujar in pasuram 27,28,29.Similarly after mentioning the birth place of other alwar’s, manavala mamunigal mentioned the birth place of ramanujar in the above pasuram 34.After mentioning ramanujar only manavala mamunigal mentioned the famous pasuram”ஆழ்வார்கள் ஏற்றம் அருளிச் செயல் ஏற்றம்……….”. And “ஆழ்வார்களையும் அருளிச்செயல்களையும் …….” Thus,both manavala mamunigal and desikan had considered ramanujar as a alwar.

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0 on January 20, 2020

Swamy,if adiyen had committed any mistake please forgive me .?manavala mamunigal thiruvadigale saranam?Adiyen ramanuja dasan?

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0 on January 21, 2020

 

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

 

Namaskaram Swami’s,

 

Adiyen’s understanding with Acharyan ThiruvAdi Bhalam and Velukkudi SriKrishnan Swami’s Anugraham as follows. The above listed Podhu Thaniyan details are correct except two Alwars name omissions and one extra addition.

 

Podhu Thaniyan

(by Swami Parasara Bhattar has 12 Alwars namam plus Swami Ramanuajr’s namam)

bhootham sarascha mahaadhaahvaya bhatta-naadha

sree bhakthisaara kulasEkhara yOgi-vaahaan,

bhakthaangirirENu parakaala yathindra mishRaan,

sreemath paraankusa munim prana-thOsmi nithyam

 

Sree” is for Andal Nachiyaar to be added,

Munim” is Madhurakavi Alwar, since ‘Muni’ means a Brahman of highest devotion. Madhuurakavi Alwar is a Brahman with highest devotion to HIS Acharya “Parankusar (Swami NammALwar) rather than to BhagavAn”.

That’s why the podhu Taniyan has “Paraankusa Munim” (NAmAlwar and HIS Lotus feet MAdhurakavi Alwar)

YathridramishrAn is Swami Ramanujar (Swami KoortahAzhvAn is not misran in this Thaniyan).

************

 

The initial question “was ramanujar a alwar?” is not limited to Alwar itself, but goes beyond that.

Swami Ramanujar is considered in all three categories by PoorvAcharyas:

  1. As an Acharya,
  2. As an Alwar,
  3. As Perumal itself

 

References for 1) As an Acharyan, we all know from many upanyasams as Swami Ramananujar is the only ONE “UDDHARAKA Acharyan” who does Uddharagatvam (lifts BhaaAdhtmas like us to Moksham, Athma Ujjivanam), and all other Acharyas are “Upakaraka” Acharyas, who does Upakaragatvam (help us to surrender on Swami Ramanuajr’s Lotus feet)

 

References for 2) As an Alwar as posted above by BhagavAtas.

 

References for 3) As Perumal itself as below.

Bhashyakara Mangalam slokam 19,

ஷெஷோவா ஸைன்ய நாதோவா ஸ்ரீபதிர்வேதி ஸாத்விக்கை:

shEshovA sainyA-nAthova ShriPathir vedhi Sathvikaihi

Means,

Is Swami ramanujAr Aadhi Sheshan Avataram (shEshovA)?, or

Is Swami ramanujAr Nithaysoori VishvaksenAr (Senai Mudhaliyar) Avataram (sainyA-nAthova)?, or

Is Swami ramanujAr Shri’s Husband (ஸ்ரீபதிர் /ShriPathir) Sriman NarayanAn Avataram,

due to the fact that Paartha Sarathy Perumal (SriKrishna) HIMSELF is born to Smt. Kaanthimathi maami & Sri Kesava Somayaji, when they asked for a son just like HIM, then BhagavAn thought in HIS mind that, there is NO ONE EQUAL to ME, and NO ONE ABOVE ME, so if they need someone like ME, then I should ONLY take Avataram directly as Ramanujar.

Who is Swami Ramanujar is the question that is dwelling in everyones mind as per the above slokam?

 

So, these three references answers any future question if someone asks, “was ramanujar Acharyan or Alwar or Perumal?” then yes, we have answers for all three,

Yes, Swami Ramanujar was an Acharyan,

Yes, Swami Ramanujar was an Alwar,

Yes, Swami Ramanujar is BhagavAn Sriman NarayanAn HIMSELF.

 

செய்யாமல் செய்த உதவிக்கு, வையகமும் வானகமும் ஆற்றல் அரிது

(Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi)

 

Nirai Irundhaal, Acharyan ThiruvAdi Bhalatthaal & Velukkudi Swami Aasirvadhatthaal,

Kurai irundhaal, adiyenai kShamikka Prathikkiraen

 

Adiyen Srinivasa (DhoddayaAcharyar) Dasan.

 

 

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0 on January 21, 2020

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

The word “BhagavAt” is applied only to BhagavAn Sriman NarayanAn. Hence due to the above Reference 3), our Poorvacharyas say Swami Ramanujar as “BhagavAt Ramanujar”.

????
Adiyen Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan

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0 on January 21, 2020

Nandri swamy.?,But,you had said” shri ” as andal nachiyar.But according to our saasthiram only mahalakshmi can be called as “sree”.Our beloved andal cannot be called as sree because,she is an incartion of boomi devi.?Swami,i think “Munim” is not madhura kavi alwar.(not sure).Because in one of my upanyasam i heared that parasara bhattar had not included andal and madhura kavi alwar because,they had sung on adiyars.Madhura kavi alwar had sung on nammalwar.Then one question may arise.”On which adiyar did andal sung?” In that upanyasam i heared that, andal in one of her pasuram,mentioned that “all credit goes to periyalwar who had taught me bhagavat vishyam and mentioned that she had sung pasurams only due to periyalwar”. And she had praised periyalwar in that pasuram indirectly.

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1 on January 21, 2020

Swamy, please forgive me if adiyen had did any mistake.?Adiyen Ramanuja dasan?

I had assumed ‘munim’ refers to Naathamuni, because he was the key person who recovered all the songs lost in history! 

There is so much confusion; let us hope our swamy will clarify on this.

adiyen dasan.

 

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0 on January 21, 2020

very interesting points mentioned by ElayaAlwar swami. adiyEn learning different perspectives which all seem correct.

I have also listened to that particular Dushyant Sridhar Swami’s upanyAsam where he mentions swAmi rAmAnujA as an AzhwAr. 

adiyEn is not very knowledgeable as adiyEn has begun this srI vaishNavism journey only in the 2018. I would say we listen to Shri. Krishnan swAmi’s explanation in En Pani 1389 and try to understand which category swAmi rAmAnujA falls under.

Though wherever he belonged, adiyEn understands one thing; uyya orEy vazhi, udayavar thiruvadi.

Like ElayaAlwar swami has expounded, maybe swAmi rAmAnujA belongs in all 3 categories. 

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1 on January 21, 2020

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

Namaskaram “G” Swami,

Parasara Bhattar Swami’s above slokam is meant for Alwars. Hence, in this context, Sri Velukkudi Swami in Podhu Thaniyan Upanyasam, CLEARLY says “Shree” is Andal in this Alwar Thaniyan context. Please listen to it from KKT.

Sri Andal sung Thiruppavai about Perumal. Sri Andal and Madhurakavai Alwar were TWO unique Alwars who considered Acharyan as Deivam. Other 10 Alwars considered Perumal as Deivam. Other than that, all 12 are Alwars.

Sri Andal considered Her ThiruThagappanaAr PeriyaAlwar as Acharyan/Deivam.
Madhurakavai Alwar considered Swami NamAlwar as Acharyan/Deivam.

If “Munim” is not considered as Madhurakavai Alwar, then it will imply that Swami Parasara Bhattar says only about 11 Alwars in this paasuram as in Swami’s upanyasam, which will be odd. It doesn’t even imply either 10 Alwars or 12 alwars.

Hence, Parasara Bhattar Swami talk’s about all 12 Alwars plus Swami Ramanujar as said above initially with Acharya ThiruvAdi Bhalam and Velukkudi Swami’s Aasirvadham.

Also Adiyen would like to make a correction in above about “mishrAn”. This could be true as Swami KoorathAzhvan, since Swami KoorathAzhvan Thaniyan is
“Srivatsan Chinha Mishrebyo……” Means, “I salute Swamy KoorathAzhvan”. Hence, Swami Parasara Bhattar salutes His ThiruThagappanaAr Swamy KoorathAzhvan in the Podhu Thaniyan slokam as “mishrAn” , though Parasara Bhattar Swami’s Dvayam Acharyan is Swami Embar.

????

Adiyen Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan.
Vandhe GuruParamparAm.

Namaskaram Swami 

When considering about the one who is called as an Azhwar, it is stated as one who is deeply immersed in Bhagwan’s Kalyana Gunas and though does all the material activities but as a worship to the lord, however this statement is not much relevant .

I remember in one of Krishnan Swami’s upanayasam he mentioned about Sri Parashara Bhattar, wherein Bhattar after his upanayasam was over certain other Bhagwatas came close to him and critiqued for which Bhattar immediately honoured them with Sholl, Gold Chain etc, in seeing this the shishyas came close to him and enquired the same for which he explained that for a Sri Vaishnava there are are 2 major duties to follow religiously daily and those are, 1- one should talk ,meditate,and Bhodha Anta Parasparam as krishna stated in the Gita and secondly one should remember all his faults and his Doshams, After explaining this Bhattar further stated for me the critic has done an Upakaram as I forgot the second duty since I donot find any time left apart from remembering the DIvya Dampathis.

The eg completely matched with the above definition stated for Azhwars so possibly we can include if want to, Bhattar too.

 

Adiyen Dasan

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