Namaskaram,
In Gita, Lord Krishna says, whomever one worship / pray, i.e., devas or gods, it reaches Him. There are people who worship without naming, (like Almighty, Brahmam etc.,) with an understanding that there is only one who is omnipresent. Whether such prayers will also reach Lord Narayanan?.
adiyen
Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,
Namaskaram Jayaram Swami,
With Acharya ThiruvAdi Bhalam and Velukkudi Sri Krishnan Swami’s Aasirvadham, Adiyen will share some insights.
Velukkudi Sri Krishnan Swami has said while describing Supreme LORD Sriman NarayanAn’s Anantha Koti (Countless) Kalyana Gunas, that BhagavAn has one Guna called “Sarva Shabta Vaajyatvam (ஸர்வ ஷப்த வாஜ்யதம்),
Sarva means ANY
Shabta means Word
Vaajyatvam means, it represents HIM only.
Overall Swami said, it means அனைத்து ஷப்தங்களாலே அவரையே சொல்ல படுபவராக இருக்கிறார்.
The Vishnu Shahasranaamam limits BhagavAn’s naamas to 1000 because for OUR easiness to chant, but HIS naamas are Countless, since any word represents BhagavAn Sriman NarayanAn Only as per HIS Kalyana Guna “Sarva Shabta Vaajyatvam”.
If we go to Perumal Sannidhi/Sanctum and call HIM as “Perumal or Almighty GOD or David or Muhammad or Shiva or Indra etc….” HE will accept it since we JeevAthmas use HIS names, BUT the other way like, if see a JeevAthma with name as David or Muhammad or Shiva or Indra and say as “Oh Lord NarayanA” IS NOT APPLICABLE to them, since they are NOT the ParamAthma “NarayanA” as per Panini Maharishi’s Sootram of Grammer for “Roodi Artham (Etimology meaning)” and “Yowkika Artham (Popular usage meaning)”. One who has both Roodi & Yowkika matching is the PARAMATHMA, which is applicable only for “NarayanA” padham/shabtam. All others like JeevAthmas will have Yowkika Artham Popular usage names of BhagavAn NarayanA, but the Roodi Artham is not applicable to a JeevAthma either in Deva Shareeram like Brahma, Shiva, Indra etc….. or jeevathmas in ordinary human bodies like us.
(ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan.
Swamis,
Thanks you for the responses.
I should make it clear. I am discussing of one who worships Almighty without fixing any form, without naming and without going to places of worship. I have a feeling that his prayers will reach Lord Narayanan. Would be happy to see some references from texts.
aditen
Namaskaram swamy.
Yes. Perumal will indeed be pleased with him, and would want to give him greater bliss. So He will arrange the situations in the life of that person such that he comes across a Vaishnava guru who can teach him the greatness and sweetness of Perumal’s names, the greatness and sweetness of the forms He manifests, the greatness and sweetness of His lilas, and the greatness and sweetness of his wonderous qualities! Thus this devotees will progress step by step and eventually reach the state of incomparable bliss experienced only through kainkaryam to Perumal.
An example: a person with jaundice has poor digestion. He can not relish any good food, especially sweets. He has to depend on very bland simple food. And this simple food can definitely nourish the person, help him improve his health. Once he is cured of jaundice, he can relish all kinds of good food and lead a much happier life.
For someone who has never experienced the good food can satisfy himself with rusk everyday. But someone who has experienced the taste and nourishment and healthy effects of good food, would not want to limit himself to rusk.
Likewise, until one is ignorant of the greatness and sweetness of different aspects of Perumal, he can continue his spiritual life with the basic idea “the superior power is guding me’; ‘the universe is guiding me’ kind of ideas.
But once he is fortunate to come across a proper acharya and learns from him about the wonderous nature of Perumal he would never ever want to limit himself to the abstract conception of Perumal.
adiyen dasan.
Scriptural reference:
Please hear upanyasams on SriBhasyam or Dhati-Pancakam. The superiority (because of the greatness and sweetness) of the philosophy of worshiping Perumal with clear understanding of HIs names, His forms, His kalyana gunas, and His lilas, over other philosophies which limits one to the partial or merely abstract understanding of Perumal is clearly explained.
adiyen dasan.
கம்பன்தாசன் swamy,
Namaskaram.
Thank you for your response. I proposed to go through / listen SriBashyam. But yet to start. Would it be possible for you to indicate the precise reference w.r.to the query of this thread. No issues, if it is difficult. No need to spend time.
adiyen
Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruve Namaha,
Dear All Bhagavata’s,
Acharya ThiruvAdi Bhalatthal, Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Aasirvadhatthaal, Adiyen will SHARE from Swami’s upanyasams.
PERUMAL is a unique term that SriVaishavaites of South India especially TamilNadu use to mention SRIRAMA BhagavAn only. Like Perumal is not applied for SriKrishna.
But the original name of The Supreme BhagavAn is “PARAMATHMA”.
BhagavAn changes HIS “ROOPAM (appearance)” in each avatars like vaamana, Marsha, varaha, SriRamPa, Sri Krishna, hygreeva etc….., but HE keeps “SWAROOPAM/SWABHAVAM (Nature of BhagavAn/HIS Unlimited Kalyana Gunas)” ALWAYS SAME in each avatars. This type is called “POORNA AVATARAM”.
And this ONE-AND-ONLY “PARAMATHMA” resides inside as “Antharathma” as well as spread outside as “VIPU”. So our ParamAthma is common inside a Hindu ? or Christian or Muslim or Sikh etc…..or inside a Atheist or a non-devotee residing as
“अङ्गुष्ठमात्रक पुरुषः”
(aGguSThamAtraka PuRusHaha)
Means residing in each of their own Hridhaya Kamalam (Heart) of their own Thumb (aGguSTham).
BhagavAn allows devotees to workshop in two types depending up on their own Vaasanaas/Ruchi/Karmas,
All HE cares, as long as you pray ME, I’M HAPPY in whichever way you can.
Gajendra Azhvan (Elephant), did not call “NarayanA” names or other names of BgagavAn like Krishna, Givinda etc….when the crocodile caught its keg when Gajendra elephant went for bath and plucked a lotus to offer to BhagavAn.
Gajendra ? called “Aadhi Moolame (ஆதி மூலமே)“, means “Oh Lord, who is responsible for every creation”. First Brahma and Shiva leaped to help Gajendra since they are responsible for creation/Samharam, but when Gajendra used the word “Aadhi”, then Brahma &Shiva stepped back, since there is a CAUSE behind their own existence (Sriman Narayanan created Brahma and in turn He created Shiva).
So BhagavAn Sriman NarayanAn is the “NishKaaranam (நிஷ் காரணம்)”, means there is NO CAUSE for HIS existence.
Same way Christians doesn’t know the Supreme BhagavAn Sriman Naraysnan’s name, but they say “ALMIGHTY GOD”, which is nothing but “Aadhi Moolame”. So it refers to our same BhagavAn and HE will descend for anyone who asks for HIS help with pure love/devotion.
BhagavAn Sriman Sriman Narayanan is taking a different approach in this Kali Yuga to bring the learned scholars/devotees and non spiritual devotees of all religions to a common platform as “Respect for Living being Entity” whether Humans or Animals or Birds etc..So which is nothing but our term (CHIT /Insentitient), since at the end, BhagavAn ALMIGHTY’S Krupai leads to Moksham (Liberation/Salvation), irrespective of our Knowledge as Swami says:
Pettrukku Upayam Nin PeruArule
பேற்றுக்கு உபாயம் நின் பேருஅருளே
பேற்றுக்கு → Moksham (Peru Verdi),
உபாயம் → Route to Moksham,
நின் → Yours (BhagavAn’s),
பேருஅருளே → Causeless Mercy (NirHedhukai Krupaietc..So, BhagavAn is sitting inside the heart if every Humans of all religions as
“अङ्गुष्ठमात्रक पुरुषः”
(aGguSThamAtraka PuRusHaha)
to give Moksham and HE likes all types of Bhakthi on HIM whether Aruvam (non diety workship) or Uruvam (diety worship). All HE expects is “UNITY IN DIVERSITY” as Upanishadh says “Sheba Poorva Anudhyanam BhakthiRidh Abhideeyadhe (With Love pure heart, you offer your devotion/prayers on ME and consider all belong to MY DIVINE Body”.
We all Hindus, Christians, Muslims etc…belong to “Living Being (CHIT) Religion” with Mercy of Almighty The Supreme, and we learned people should remember this more than any other people. So we SHOULD ASK MOKSHAM ON THEIR BEHALF, IF THEY DONT KBOW WHAT IS MOKSHAM.
(ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan.
I appreciate teh fact that a significant part of what you have said is in agreement with Emperumaanaar darshanam
ElayaAlwar swamy,
Namaskaram.
The story of Gajendra calling ஆதி மூலமே
ஆதி மூலமே
is an opt reminder for the query posted by me in this thread. It is just the ‘dot’ response.
I will come up later why I have posted this thread.
Thank you.
adiyen
Namaskaram.
The reason for posting this thread ::
During my school days, my interest in philosophical songs made me to think who am I and what for I am here. This has created interest in spirituality. I am from a family worshipping Lord Narayanan. I used to listen to devotional songs. I went through Gita and was doing daily puja (not in a very ritualistic manner). At one point of time, I prayed to the ParaBrahmam in an highly emotional state and with a deep feeling from heart ::
“I am praying to the ParaBrahmam, do not know whom you are by name, not asking for material and pleasure, I do not know what I need, I won’t be repeating this prayer again as a beggar. You give me what is the best for me.”
After this, started reading texts on spirituality. An “incident” happened, strongly believed that to be the Divine guidance and taken up meditation sadhana. Guru promises mukti in the present janma itself. (I discontinued due to my health issues only. I strongly believe in the efficacy of the system. Just because, I discontinued, it does not mean I lost faith. I request not to comment on the system).
It is said that Vaishnavism route is the only route in kali yuga for mukti. Since, I have prayed to ParaBrahmam, why I was not shown the path of Vaishnavism route for mukti by Lord Narayanan in the beginning itself. Why is that I am going for Vaishnavism route after a long struggle with health issues. I feel I have reduced my karmas in this process. Kindly do not mention that He wanted me to undergo the effect of karmas and then try Vaishnavism route.
I am wondering about this.
adiyen
Jayaram Swamy namaskaram.
I am grateful to you for validating my understanding
Yes. Perumal will indeed be pleased with him, and would want to give him greater bliss. So He will arrange the situations in the life of that person such that he comes across a Vaishnava guru who can teach him the greatness and sweetness of Perumal’s names, the greatness and sweetness of the forms He manifests, the greatness and sweetness of His lilas,
Regarding your question ‘why He took a seemingly circuitous route instead of directly bringing you to a Vaishnava path’, only He knows the answer. If we were to try to answer that question we will be giving an answer based on our own experiences and biases in life. But the actual reason only He knows!
But based on your experience, each one of us in this forum gets the strong conviction that Perumal is indeed paying close attention to our prayers and He definitely responds to us when we call him out with all our heart.
Although it may seem to be a circuitous route, considering the number of thousands of births we have been taking, His response within this one life time is as good as an instantaneous response…. ‘less than a nano-second‘. We know even the great King Bharatha had to take birth as a deer and then as Jada-Bharatha before he got free from this material life. Compared to him where are we?!!! It is Udaiyavar’s Thiruvadi balam that we are getting this chance to become free in this life itself!
adiyen dasan.
Regarding the reference to SriBhasyam upanyasam or Dhati-Pancakam upanyasam, our Velukkudi Swamy clearly explains all the diferent kinds of philosophies – ranging from sunyavadam, nirvisesham, mayawadam, (and names which I don’t rememer now), and establishes clearly and logically why Vaishnava Philosophy is the complete Philisophy which withstands all logical tests. Ramanujacharya clearly establishes this systematically in SriBhasyam:
Is there something called soul? Or the phenomenone of life is merely a combinationof matter?
Does God exist?
Is God a person or an abstract Super Power?
Does He have a form or is He formless?
Is there only one God or are their multiple Gods?
All these questions and more are systematically answered by Ramanujacharya using simple logic, and our Swamy follows the same flow of explanation in the upanyasam.
In the Dhatti Pancakam upanyasam it is the discourse on the second verse where he goes into the details of all the different philosophies. In case of SriBhasyam upanyasam I am unable to give the exact details. However, if you are about to listen to the series systematically, then you’ll not miss it.
Once again, thank you very much for sharing your personal story in a manner that is giving us more confidence in Perumal’s shelter.
adiyen dasan.
PS: I wonder how the name ‘john smith’ slipped into my post above! May be my name name was john smith in one of the previous births!
கம்பன்தாசன் swamy,
Namaskaram.
As indicated by you, He guides the real seeker. This poor man always have the feeling of His guidance.
I accept one should be lucky enough to be free of this birth cycle even if it takes “seemingly circuitous route”.
Now a thought has occurred to me that since the first system, meditation, is Divine guidance, it could also be His choice to attain mukti. I self realized in that system. Can His guidance go wrong?. It is my mistake and inability to continue and hence, my feeling is that, He is guiding into vaishnavite route. May be, He directs one to a system based on one’s nature, that may be the reason for His first choice of guidance to me.
I always wanted to fall back into my own Sampradhayam, in case if I give up any system after my attempt. Basically, because I am from a family worshipping Lord Narayanan. Hence, Srivaishnavism is my parent Sampradhayam.
I would like to have unbiased thinking in spiritual field. After all His creation is so vast, so there can be more than one route to reach Him. One swamy quoted from SriBashyam what any Jeevan from any Sampradhayam does in SriVaikuntam, when they reach. This indicates people following other Sampradhayam can also reach vaikuntam. When I go through SriBashyam, I will get a clear understanding.
Ramanujacharya clearly establishes this systematically in SriBhasyam:
I posted my query to couple of scholars seeking details on ParaBrahmam, almost a year back, before joining this forum. One scholar mentioned that it would be difficult to explain the detail in e-mail and suggested me to go through his work on Brahmasutram. It is quite a voluminous one and hence did not try. I would be interested to go through SriBashyam and expressed the same in another thread. Waiting for TIME.
adiyen
Namaskaram Swamins
PD Jayaram Swami, devarir’s question itself answered it cryptically. ” Since, I have prayed to ParaBrahmam, why I was not shown the path of Vaishnavism route for mukti by Lord Narayanan in the beginning itself.” Ans . I do not know what I need, I won’t be repeating this prayer again. You give me what is the best for me.”
And Sri Hari guided you with :
P.S
Since every individual is not the same individual however, is part of only one individual. Everyone to that one ( Supreme) is his child. Also just like laukika Thayar desires of his child’s safety and timely return, so is HIM. However, here it is untimely return due to Karmas, nevertheless he waits patiently and gives suhrut to make the child to get inclined towards him. Since his children has Bhina – Bhina Ruchi and for that he provides stepping stones to cross over and reach the final destination. Adiyen hope this suffices and kshamika Prarthikkaren
Adiyen Dasan
Ramanuja- Parakalan dasan swamy,
Namaskaram.
I appreciate your efforts in answering from my post itself. However, I leave at that without comment.
every thing has a kaalam
This reminds me of my grandmother, about 30 years back on seeing my activities, told me to take up samasrayanam. She herself took up samasrayanam. It was after I started meditation.
adiyen
